Verts w/o roll bars [Archive] - SCMC Message Forum

redsnake99

11-24-2003, 12:33 AM

As one of few in the club who have been in the position to understand what it feels like, I ran in a lead-follow at Road Atlanta shortly after buying my 99 Cobra. After that event, I made the decision to do the mods on my car to allow me to run anywhere I wanted to. For those who don't want to make that choice, I would vote to allow them to run in a lead-follow at not too great a speed, no passing.

It then becomes the convertible owner's choice, if you want to run fast and pass people, get a roll bar.

:D

cobragb

11-24-2003, 11:05 AM

I agree with Dave. But I would even farther, If you want to run wide open you should have a bar period..., coupe or convertible.

Black Horse

11-24-2003, 11:08 AM

If we are a club to promote safe operation of our vehicles then I say no convertibles without rollbars, no matter what and all coupes using safety harness to have rollbars as well. Lets face it, you can roll a car at 40 mph!

OK that seems a little extreme...maybe there should be some middle ground.

I would propose:

1) Convertibles with no rollbars and unexperienced drivers MUST be in the beginner, no passing class. Instructor required, or strict lead/follow.

2) Convertibles must have rollbars to advance to higher level classes. Safety harness should be strongly recommended (prevent ejection if rollover).

3) I would also recommend that coupes without rollbars the use of safety harness be strongly discouraged if not disallowed alltogether except for the beginner level class (documented cases of head crushing during rollover where driver was not able to move due to the harness).

As much as I love everyone to have fun and take their cars to new limits...we all need to be able to walk away at the end of the day!

nastystrike

11-24-2003, 12:03 PM

I have an old Datsun 2000 roadster which I have raced with a roll bar for safety's sake so I agree with you that roll bars make them safer. I don't intend to "race" my new Cobra, and I don't intend to modify it by putting a roll bar on it, but I do enjoy running it on the track like we did at TWS. One reason we join the SCMC club is to have a chance to run our Cobras as quickly and safely as possible. I believe it is safer on a track than on a country highway. There is no difference to the driver if he rolls over on a twisty back road or on a closed track - he gets hurt just as badly except there are EMS folks readily available at the track. While I, as a vert owner, appreciate your concern for safety, is seems the real issue is liability. I am sure that there are legal documents to release tracks and clubs from liability if there is an accident. Some instructors are reluctant to ride in verts and they have a right not to. If there were no instructors willing to ride, then the verts could not participate. However, if the driver is willing to take the risk, and the instructor is willing, and the track and the club are protected from liability, then the verts should be allowed to run. It's a freedom of choice issue. That's my opinion.

svt_coupe

11-24-2003, 01:08 PM

John - I think you already know what I'm going to say. But...

I believe that newcomers to this sport do not fully understand the risks involved with taking a car on track at speed. When I started open tracking, I wasn't totally aware of what can and will go wrong. I don't want to say that I threw caution to the wind, but I most certainly would not do now some of the things I did earlier. Yes, the track is a relatively controlled environment (more so than a country road). But it only takes someone in front of you to drop oil/antifreeze at the right place and the car will go off track, regardless of the driver's experience level. Letting convertibles without rollbars run at speed is just begging for trouble, IMHO.

Two other factors that will probably make this a moot point anyway - I don't think you'll get instructors in the car (at least in this area) without rollover protection. And, getting insurance for an event where verts can run unrestricted is nearly impossible.

I don't want to be Mr. Doomsday, but after helping to organize events for 3 years now and having seen many incidents, I firmly believe there is a time when you have to protect people from themselves. If you are going to provide a place to play, you've got to make the playground safe.

With that said, I don't think you have to ban rollbar-less verts from the track. If there is sufficient demand, I vote for allowing verts in a non-passing, controlled speed run group.

Levi

11-24-2003, 01:14 PM

John,
This is not a one time thing for me or the club, members need to prepare for this type of club event. I think you are correct in not allowing verts with out roll bars to any high speed track event. Racing around cons in a parking lot is NOTHING like the speeds that can be reached at an event like TWS and I think they should be Roll Cages. I plain on doing a lot more open track events and do not want to see anyone get hirt. I have a coupe and I am going to get a Roll Cage as soon as I can, for my safty is number one.

Thanks,
Stan

cobrabitn

11-24-2003, 02:50 PM

This is just for the record as I would like to read everyone's opinion on this topic. These are the rules the SCMC goes by at our OT events for convertibles without rollbars:

1) No passing
2) Lead follow session
3) Street tires per insurance company
4) Speed limited -- for CMP it is 95 mph
5) No instructor will be forced to ride with anyone in a droptop without a rollbar, it's their option. They may also consider going at a slower pace to show the owner the correct lines.

We want to promote a fun atmosphere but we also want to take safety to the utmost extreme while including as many SCMC members as possible. Remember, this is a driving school, not a timed race. We will not tolerate racing wheel to wheel at our events, that's why you have NASA, right Bryan?

Thanks,

Tony

svt_coupe

11-24-2003, 03:19 PM

Tony - we see eye to eye on this. You guys know I'm a safety freak - I've just seen too many incidents and the "no rollbar in verts" thing is something I'm passionate about.

Like we did last year (which ran great), I think the rules you have outlined above are great. I see no reason to change them.

johnbasf

11-24-2003, 06:57 PM

If the instuctors don't ant to ride in the car couldn't they do a lead follow in their car?? I thank you all for your input. The club rules that Tony posted sound good to me.

Mystic_Cobra

11-24-2003, 07:57 PM

I agree with what's in the rules, also.

Hazman

11-24-2003, 11:51 PM

My wife and I had a great time at Gingerman last year in our 97 vert. When we got back from Gingerman the one mod for my car that was non-negotiable was a 4-point spec roll bar with cross brace and harness bar. Number two on the list was good harnesses and number three was Snell SA not M helmets for both of us.

I want to do several open track events this year but I want to be safe while doing them. I also want the roll bar for everyday driving. You never know when you will hit water or loose gravel or some idiot will hit you and in a vert you are extremely vulnerable.

As for it being a club liability issue, the cost of insurance is only going up and if verts having roll bars will save the club money so we can do more events then I am all for it.

:thumbsup:

cobrabitn

11-25-2003, 12:30 PM

John,

I think that is the best idea so that we insure the proper speed while on the track.

:)

Peter Calvert

11-25-2003, 01:15 PM

John et al:

I agree with what the others have said - i.e. convertibles need rollbars above the beginner class. This is a safety issue and we're out there having fun. The last thing that we want is for someone to get hurt.

When I went to my first event a couple of years ago I'd just spent a few bucks on a lightbar. When told that I wouldn't be able to move out of the novice group without a rollbar, I got a six-pointer and I've been having a 'blast' ever since. Bu the way, anyone want a slightly used lightbar??

I also installed a 5-point harness and this year I found out about arm restraints. I now have both for driver and passenger. Safety is the issue.

Peter - ZZOOM

John Mouvery

11-26-2003, 02:37 PM

John,

My vote would be for verts to be required to have rollbars at any speed during OT events. There's too much at risk and it's too easy to rollover. Even at slow speeds, a rollover would not be favorable to occupants in a barless vert.

John M.
'94 Coupe w/ full 6 point cage

spittincobra01

11-26-2003, 08:40 PM

***warning, personal opinions and points of view enclosed. Please read and take as such***

I think safety is an important issue for everyone, or at least it should be! I bought a coupe for the safety and structural integrity of it. not to mention less weight =o) I still intend to install a 6 point roll cage with cross bar and harness bar as soon as I'm out of my warranty. NO QUESTIONS ASKED!

nastystrike, I don't know you and don't want to point fingers..... BUT your statement above is kind of like the "helmet for motorcycles" or "seat belt" laws, and your point doesn't hold water. I will agree with you on one thing, it is all a matter of choice. If you own a convertable you have the choice to install a roll bar or do a lead-follow session. You even have one more choice.... stay off track. That is the only sensible thing we as a club can do. It all becomes a liability issue, even beyond insurance. We live in a sinical, law suit crazed society, and have to CYA accordingly. Brian is absolutely right when he says there comes a point where you have to protect people from themselves. Working in the medical field for 9 years I have seen what can and WILL happen in a roll over situation involving occupants of a convertable. Not to mention anyone else who is on the track at the time that vert rolls and ejects the occupants into their path. I would have a hard time living with that if it were to happen to me.

My vote, keep the rules the same..... for everyones well being!

Matt

97whitevert

11-27-2003, 09:21 AM

OK my .02...
as a vert owner, I will not take my car out for an alll out OT session. I thank the great people who were will ing to ride with me and teach me many things w/out a roll bar in the car; but i won't do that again. I do think that a lead follow, speed controled session is acceptable; it is a great way to get those who may not otherwise try an OT event (ie get them hooked and let them decide from there where to go). :thumbsup:

nastystrike

11-29-2003, 06:22 PM

Appears my comments ruffled some feathers so one more post and then I am done. I was under the impression that you were looking to prohibit verts from all track events. With that I disagree. There needs to be a forum where folks can drive their SVT cars safely and still have some fun. As I said before, I do not intend to race this car so Tony's rules work fine for me. I think the rules we used at TWS were fine, too. And, as a quick response to some of the other posts, I agree with requiring roll bars for racing cars; not all new members to this forum are new to the sport of racing; I do believe in wearing a helmet while riding my motorcycle and believe in wearing seat belts at all times. I, too, have been a member of the medical community for many years, realize the importance of safety, and am not trying to make any waves. If you have an event we vert owners can attend and participate in, we will come. Thanks for the forum.
Richard
'03 Torch Red Vert

spittincobra01

11-29-2003, 08:37 PM

Richard you didn't ruffle any feathers, you just stated your opinion. As I did with mine. I did and still do disagree with your origional post, but after reading the second understand that you were under the wrong impression of what this club was doing.

I realize you are not new to racing, but since you are new to the club let me tell you a few things about the SCMC.

this is not your typical organization. We are more like a wide spread yet tight knit family. We all look out for one another, and help eachother out. We speak our minds, and offer up our insights, opinions, and experiences. We get together to have fun, but it has to be safe fun or we won't be able to do so in the future. We don't often sugar coat things we say, so instead we take things at face value. If we agree, we say so... if not, we say so. Just because people have different views doesn't make one more right than another... and definately doesn't mean they are offended. After you look around the forum some more, and get involved with other discussions you'll see what I mean.

Don't take offense to what I said, instead try to understand that we are out here looking out for the well being of other members. and that is what the SCMC is all about. Allowing a vert w/o a rollbar is not looking out for anyones well being. It is turning a blind eye to a potentially dangerous combination.

johnbasf

11-29-2003, 08:49 PM

This is a club discussion, and a good one. I value all the opinions given. We want to include ALL club members. I hope all the "vert no roll bar" people understand the rules the club has. I don't want a disappointed member when I tell them to slow down at an open track event. Thanks for all the input. :thumbsup:

grasshopper

11-30-2003, 03:17 PM

Thanks for all the pro-rollbar input. When I bought my 99 vert :bounce:, I was convinced I was going to put in a roll bar- until I learned that the 'light bar' is only a 2pt bar and probably won't provide any protection in a roll over (I think it should be called a "lite bar"). When looking into regulation for OT events at other clubs, I was faced with either not attending those events or putting in a 4pt roll bar which would greatly hinder back seat space. After a year of debating the issue I have finally decided to put in a custom 4pt roll bar that would still permit the use of the back seat.

It's not an easy decision and it's complicated by the fact that car manufacturers sell verts without roll bars. They appearantly thinks it's OK to drive 75mph in a rollbar-less vert. It's also difficult to modify the interior of such a nice car so that one might be able to enjoy the performance that the Cobras are designed to provide.

I'm not sure if I'd like to do a lead-follow session although it sounds like a good way to learn the preferred lines into curves/turns.
My first track event was a SVTOA event and I had no problem finding an instructor to ride with me (speeds less then 85). Thinking back on the event and how easy it was to get my Cobra going fast (or so I thought), I think I am overdue for a roll bar (even for daily driving). However, I wonder how safe a vert with a roll bar would be in a rollover. Wouldn't arms get broken or worse? Maybe arms get broken in a coupe roll over as well.... Regardless, coupes are safer, end of story.

Eventhough it is frustrating to have such a race ready car that is restircted on the track, I think the rules are appropriate. If you have a vert and have not been to an OT event, do a lead follow session. If you like it and want to go further, either get a 4pt roll bar or trade in for/buy a coupe. It's a tough choice to give up a vert once you have been hooked! I hope to have a coupe project car ready in 2004 (non-Cobra ':(') . If that goes well, I'll be looking for a ~94 Cobra for the next project- hopefully....;)

Peter Calvert

11-30-2003, 09:52 PM

Grasshopper:

I too have a '99 convertible and I've installed a 6 point rollbar just so that I could do OT events. Regarding broken arms, etc., some clubs require convertibles to have arm restraints which attach to your seatbelts and make it impossible for your arms to go flailing around. I must say that they are uncomfortable and make it difficult to signal a pass but they do provide an extra measure of safety. I must also say that, even with all this safety equipment, I really don't want to 'test' it!!

svt_coupe

12-01-2003, 12:47 PM

I've debated posting this picture because it appears to paint an apocalyptic picture for vert owners and I didn't want to scare away potential participants. However, this picture does illustrate the issue at hand very well and I firmly believe people who enjoy open tracking should be aware of these "what could happen" scenarios.

This M3 hardtop picture has got to be one of the most overused images on the internet when it comes to the rollover safety issue. Both the instructor and student walked away from this incident with only minor bumps and bruises. Stock seats will collapse with the roof line, allowing room for the occupants to move out of the way. Hence, the roof offers some protection from objects hitting passengers in a rollover. But in a vert, you can see where the problem would be without a rollbar. You need to have something to keep the car off your head.

With this said, there are some great examples of how you can enjoy this sport safely with a vert. Look no further than SCMC's own Dave Stanfield, Todd Shanaberger, or Tom Lewis' freakazoid Banana vert. I like the rules Tony and John have put together for verts and I think it's a great way for people to get exposed to open tracking.

By the way... I am the farthest thing from a safety expert, so don't "take my word for it" on this matter.

cobrabitn

12-01-2003, 01:38 PM

Although I think most of our members will not be going ten tenths on the track, this is a good picture to put some fear in you whether you own a vert or not. Don't over estimate your abilities as a driver, many professional race car drivers have accidents.

Just try to be smart in the manner that you drive and you will avoid incidents like these. I own two hardtops and that pic even scares me of the thought of what could happen.

Thanks for sharing that with us Bryan!:thumbsup:

Black Horse

12-01-2003, 02:34 PM

Amen Bryan!

grasshopper

12-01-2003, 02:41 PM

Bryan-
Thanks for the reminder that even coupes can benefit from roll bars. I believe that people who want to do track driving on a somewhat regular basis should have a roll bar/cage. I have spoken with Dave and I like the way he has his 6pt roll bar set up. The back down tubes actually bend around the back seat thereby allowing back seat access (straight tubes mount on the back of the back seat). I had wanted to do something similar but was told that the THSCC would only approve straight down tubes for OT events. I now decided not to run the car at THSCC track events and focus on SCMC events. I know, I was a little slow to realize how much fun Corba owners can be!:banana:

johnbasf

12-01-2003, 06:24 PM

Bryan uses big words I don't understand.:D

98banana

12-01-2003, 09:10 PM

Originally posted by johnbasf
Bryan uses big words I don't understand.:D

You mean like "freakaziod"? :D I've heard the banana called many things, but not freakazoid! LOL!

I don't think I've chimed in on this one yet...

I do not think 'verts should be allowed on any track without roll bars. I was thinking at first that if it is kept at highway speeds, it would be okay, but I've changed my mind. One thing that the driver does not do, or at least should not do, when on the highway is drive a race line. You normally keep it well within the painted lines and are pretty safe that way. On the race track, even in a lead-follow slow speed environment, you are riding at the edge of the track trying to learn the line. What happens whan you slip a wheel off the track, get caught trying to get back on the track and get into an accident. I know, not very likely to happen, but possible, right? Why risk it???

Do yourself a favor and bolt in at least a 4-point bar for the weekend. All it takes is removal of a few plastic panels to slap it in and then you can take it right back out on Monday. If you can afford a $150 - $300 weekend plus wear items, you can afford the roll bar.

Banana Motorsports is not in the business of streetable roll bars, at least not yet, but I'll make a deal with anybody that may need help putting the roll bar in the car: If you come to my house before the event with the roll bar, I'll help install it, no charge. I feel that strongly about having roll bars in a 'vert.

Tom

spittincobra01

12-01-2003, 09:16 PM

thanks for the pic Brian, it shows the dangers we all face in this sport. I have 3 pics I want to share with this thread of what happened at my very first track event, on my first lap! This car was about 4 cars ahead of me, in a lead follow session at Road Atlanta in April, 2002

spittincobra01

12-01-2003, 09:19 PM

infact, Tom was there on this day! Hi Tom!! I still owe you a couple dews :thumbsup:

spittincobra01

12-01-2003, 09:20 PM

last one for this car

98banana

12-01-2003, 09:24 PM

Originally posted by spittincobra01
infact, Tom was there on this day! Hi Tom!! I still owe you a couple dews :thumbsup:

Hey Matt! Yeap, I remember that car well, first session, first lap turn 7, Road Atlanta. What a day for that poor soul. And that's exactly what I'm talking about . That guy drove his car to the track and is probably a fine driver. Then, he got on the track and possibly let his ego loose a little and totalled his car. He didn't roll over, but he could have.

And I'll have to pass on the dews... I've got a new healthy outlook on life and try to stay away from carbonated drinks. Yes, even beer! :D I'll take a nice big Deerfield water though! :D

spittincobra01

12-01-2003, 09:44 PM

yup, you remembered it perfectly! It almost looked as tho he was going over till the wall got in his way. and you're on for those H20's! whenever we both attend the same event again... with your business, and my life that could be 2050 :eek:

LOL... good to see you out here!

Peter Calvert

12-02-2003, 09:29 AM

I think that Tom epitomizes the spirit of this club and one of the reasons that I'm so pleased to be a member. Thanks Tom.

2KWhiteSnake

12-02-2003, 03:24 PM

Originally posted by Peter Calvert
I think that Tom epitomizes the spirit of this club and one of the reasons that I'm so pleased to be a member. Thanks Tom.

You've got that right!!! He custom built my cage for my 01' Coupe. Tom has been through an accident and walked away in his vert, so I'd take his opinion seriously. I'm completely thrilled with the cage, even if he might not call it "Streetable" (it's my daily driver) ;)

I fear a rollover in my coupe, so I know the vert guys should fear it. The thing I noticed about lead-follow though was the fact that the speed limit is 95mph, which is way more than enough to get into trouble at CMP. Heck, I spun out in turn 1 (raining) at about 25 mph. Not that I had the potential to flip the car at that speed, but you can spin out at such low speed. It can happen just that quick. I'd hate to see a vert, let alone a coupe go flying off between 3 and 4 at CMP. Ronn Hale has actually seen someone flip there, and it's only a 60-70 mph turn. I guess it doesn't take much speed for those tires to bite once you're "off road".

The Cobra club rule on verts without a cage running lead-follow is a must at minimum. Even in lead follow situations like "touring" sessions I've seen people in lead follow doing 100+ between 7 and 8 at CMP. That's just a recipe for disaster IMO. If speeds are monitored very closely, and each car is to stay within a certain distance of the car ahead, it shouldn't be a problem. Although, I know all of you have seen people "drop back" a bit to get running starts during touring laps...at least I have.

Just a few thoughts

Safety first!!!

Craig:o

johnbasf

12-02-2003, 06:49 PM

We will be doing it a little different next March in the lead follow group. This depends on how many show up. Those of you that are first timers can also sign up for lead follow to get your feet wet. :thumbsup:

justagt

12-04-2003, 10:23 AM

""I've got a new healthy outlook on life and try to stay away from carbonated drinks. Yes, even beer! ""

To whoever stole him...... can you please return the real Tom Lewis!!!!!!:D

98banana

12-04-2003, 10:52 AM

Originally posted by justagt
To whoever stole him...... can you please return the real Tom Lewis!!!!!!:D

:rotf: Hey, I'm even training for the Florida Half Ironman competition next May. I can't drink beer AND run/cycle/swim!

Now I'm just wishing I hadn't buried the pool!

justagt

12-04-2003, 11:12 AM

I agree totally with Tom in that a vert without a bar should not be on the track at all. But I also agree with Bryan in that these schools, be it SCMC, NASA, BMWCCA, etc. are a GREAT way to show new people about a cool sport/hobby. But in the interest of safety first, I still stand next to Tom on that. If someone has a vert and is interested, I would rather them come out and ride to see what it is like.

From an instructor stand point, I will not ride in a convert without a rollbar. I have two boys and want to see them grow up. Yes, I know that may sound morbid, but things do happen. I even try to avoid riding in verts with bar if I can help it.

I understand, and like, the limiting of the top speed and having a lead follow. But I feel safe in saying most of us are capable of driving in a straight line at 95, hardtop or vert. My issue is the corners...... there is no way to really limit how fast someone will take a corner and that is where people get in trouble. Myself included as Tony has photographic proof of this. But like Tom said, getting a wheel off or turning the car sideways and going off is when the bad things happen. There is just no way to limit that and most of us that do this will admit that we learned that by getting a wheel off or spinning out. It doesn't take a lot of speed to go off sideways, dig the tires in and flip.

my 2 cents.

SIUNARA

12-04-2003, 01:06 PM

My $.02 worth...

I think the verts w/out roll bars should be in the speed limited lead/follow group. Think about this though...limiting the speed to 95 on a straight is a good idea...but what is the limit through the corners? If the lead person is hauling the mail everywhere but on the straights, that will allow the person following to run pretty fast through the corners, thus negating the point of the speed limited run group. If the following person is running at just about what everyone else is running at in the corners, we are taking away the safety factor IMHO. Limiting the speed on the straights is the lesser issue if we are truly concerned about safety. The corners should be the main concern...as Will illustrated last year...it's where most will go off!! :D ;)

Sorry Will, you brought it up and I just had to go there. :thumbsup:

johnbasf

12-04-2003, 06:49 PM

Mr. Shugg had some good ideas for CMP. We will have more that one leader, like Panoz school at RA.

spittincobra01

12-04-2003, 11:24 PM

John I don't think the number of instructors for lead/follow sessions makes that much of a difference. Yes it would limit the distance one could gain before entering a corner, but it still won't necessarily slow anyone down. My first event was RA with Panoz instructors in a lead/follow and I was at 120mph in the straights, (which was as fast as their A4's would go) and running about 6/10's in the corners which was pretty hard considering it was a rainy day. Granted that was toward the end of the day, and I got a 1:1 with me and the instructors cars being the only 2 in our "group"... but I still wouldn't say that disaster couldn't have happened. I think the instructor felt comfortable in my abilities so he pushed a little harder as he even allowed me/us to pass slower run groups on the back straight. I am definately alot more safety oriented now, and I am very lucky that nothing happened that day as I still had to drive my car 1800 miles home.

I think the major difference would come from instructors who limit newcomers and anyone with a barless vert with great restraint. Reguardless of perceived abilities, and the desire to go baby go.

cobrabitn

12-05-2003, 11:49 AM

I think what John is saying is we are going to have an instructor in a coupe to lead the session and he will lead the session with plenty of time to slow everyone down before each turn so their speeds will drop well below 95 mph.

Honestly, I can only think of two verts right now thay may attend the event and that's just guessing here. Great topic and replies but it may be moot point if no verts without rollbars show up.:thumbsup:

cobrabitn

12-05-2003, 11:51 AM

Oh yeah, here you go....

cobrabitn

12-05-2003, 11:52 AM

depressing to see and scary too.:(

98banana

12-05-2003, 12:06 PM

Originally posted by cobrabitn
Honestly, I can only think of two verts right now thay may attend the event and that's just guessing here. Great topic and replies but it may be moot point if no verts without rollbars show up.:thumbsup:

LOL! That would be kind of funny. It's still a good topic and I appreciate the opinions too.

grasshopper

12-19-2003, 10:59 AM

Thanks to all for your comments/suggestions.
It has had two major effects for me- it has emphasized the importance of roll bars and it has made me question having a vert instead of a coupe:( . For me there's nothing like cruisin' with the top down!:yup:! I'm consdering not doing a roll bar to avoid possible problems with selling and swapping the vert for a 97 (pacific green!) coupe for OT's and maybe another daily driver... On the other hand, I have heard GREAT things about CMP and I'm not sure I'd get my act together to have another car ready in time (there's already a 66 Valiant project in the garage). I have been given permission from my car owner to go, so I just gotta go. So, how about a bolt-in 4 pointer- I am assuming a bolt-in would provide sufficient protection, right?

cobrabitn

12-19-2003, 12:26 PM

Marc,

You do what you want but if it were me, I'd sell the project car, keep the droptop and get a 94-95 Cobra or GT Coupe for the track. The 94-95's are relatively inexpensive right now and you can still daily drive it to work and bring the ragtop out on nice sunny days.

Just my .02 worth.:thumbsup:

flynfink

12-19-2003, 01:46 PM

cobrabitn

12-19-2003, 02:00 PM

Well..... it just looks like it's for sale. :rotf:

BTW, I was just messing with you on the mailing list.:D

98banana

12-19-2003, 02:13 PM

Originally posted by grasshopper
So, how about a bolt-in 4 pointer- I am assuming a bolt-in would provide sufficient protection, right?

Yes, a 4-point bolt-in would provide MUCH more protection than nothing. It's not as good as a full cage, of course, but you'll be fine with a 4-point. The best part of the 4-point is that you can take it back out without even knowing it was ever there.

grasshopper

12-19-2003, 06:01 PM

Originally posted by cobrabitn
Marc,

You do what you want but if it were me, I'd sell the project car, keep the droptop and get a 94-95 Cobra or GT Coupe for the track. The 94-95's are relatively inexpensive right now and you can still daily drive it to work and bring the ragtop out on nice sunny days.

Just my .02 worth.:thumbsup:

Tony,
The 66 is a project with a mopar ("or no car") buddy- he has the know how and additional parts to make it happen. I was hesitant to embark on a project car on my own... It's his car, my garage and my education.:baby:
After you mentioned a 94/95 a while back, I eventually saw (and agreed) with your reasoning. However, there is no green.... :) I may go for a GT depending on how much work it would need to compare with the 99's handling- seems it would need some work and $- but that's a topic for another thread.
Do you know of anybody selling a 94?:p

I'll take $0.02, thanks.

cobrabitn

12-19-2003, 11:44 PM

Go to autotrader.com. I just went there and there are several GT's there for reasonable prices. ;)

Morath

01-03-2004, 06:36 PM

What is a fair/normal price to have 6 point installed?

SIUNARA

01-04-2004, 12:14 AM

Check out bananamotorsports.com Tom can help you out. :)

2KWhiteSnake

01-04-2004, 11:07 PM

Originally posted by SIUNARA
Check out bananamotorsports.com Tom can help you out. :)

I 2nd that! He did my custom 4 pt. Quality is 100%. He's a perfectionist. He'll treat you right.

Craig

spittincobra01

01-05-2004, 01:19 PM

and if you're lucky he'll even offer you a water since there is no more mountain dew in his house ;)

98banana

01-05-2004, 02:16 PM

Originally posted by spittincobra01
and if you're lucky he'll even offer you a water since there is no more mountain dew in his house ;)

hehehe... unfortunatly, I've been cheating and sneaking a dew now and then. :D

Hey Morath, my offer still stands to anybody that wants help installing a rollbar before the SCMC event. Do you already have one to be installed or are you wanting a custom install?

By the way, nice car. My cousin has the silver version of your car! Sweet!

Morath

01-05-2004, 06:00 PM

I do not have one to be installed...

I was just inquiring...I'm still not sure if I'm going to have it done or not.

I will get back to you if I do indeed decide to have one installed...

PM me with your prices and suggestions...

98banana

01-05-2004, 06:04 PM

Originally posted by Morath
PM me with your prices and suggestions...

Will do...

spittincobra01

01-05-2004, 10:14 PM

sneaking huh.... sounds like me with the less expensive mods....lol

nckissfan

02-10-2004, 04:26 PM

ok, took me a while to read all the responses. I just recently bought my 97 convertible. I love it. I, also, love racing. I used to race road course go karts. I love driving the track. I would love to take my car on a track, and feel it out. But, I don't want to end up like that silver coupe! I know my capabilities, but also know things happen. I like the "no rollbar" lead/follow rule. I don't think I will ever put a roll bar in my car, so I know that I will never get to open her up on a race track. That is fine. I would love to ride along with somebody, at a race event. I love going fast.