Brake Rotors

[kevin]

well it seems no one chenaged threads so it's a two topic thread now

i tend to brake late and hard, then off (like tom's example of the on/off switch). some of you have riden with me and can correct me if i'm misreading what i'm doing (and don't use the first couple laps as those are car and driver warmups)

the two-piece rotors are wearing great and the hawk blues look like they may have another full season on them. this, on the 00r, 14 track days after subtracting for the weathermen effects.

but like i've said b4, i'll be switching to pf 01 after these blues are gone

[thomasmoran1]

I'm like tom, hard as you can and then trail brake into the corner. My favorite for that is Road Atlanta. Coming down the hill into 11a I'm standing on the brake pedal as har as I can. In fact just thinking about how much fun that is makes me want to get out there right now.


Thomas

[thomasmoran1]

Originally posted by Dean95CobraR
I can believe this statement. I've always heard that the early/long braker will generate more heat than the hard/short braker. I see a lot of people practically coasting with the brake on and I believe this kills pad life.

Dean, I have to disagree with you on this one. If you ever watch any long distance racing like Le Mans you will see that some teams will make there drivers take it easy in the brake zones to get the brakes to last to the end of the race. In fact I've even seen it happen in F1 on tracks like the old Hockenheim and Montreal where in the dying laps of the race a car will fall a couple of seconds off the pace because they need to make the brakes last till the end.

Thomas

[Dean95CobraR]

Originally posted by thomasmoran1
Dean, I have to disagree with you on this one. If you ever watch any long distance racing like Le Mans you will see that some teams will make there drivers take it easy in the brake zones to get the brakes to last to the end of the race. In fact I've even seen it happen in F1 on tracks like the old Hockenheim and Montreal where in the dying laps of the race a car will fall a couple of seconds off the pace because they need to make the brakes last till the end.

Thomas

You may have a point but I'm not sure that their situation relates to our relatively feable braking systems and hardware. They are totally in a different league. They could actually be coasting more without the brakes applied also. JMHO

[thomasmoran1]

Dean, those brakes are much better than anything on our cars but they are still doing the same thing. Turning Kentic energy into heat. When we were in MAM and I was instructing Denis, he was telling me how he was having brake fade and wear problems with his 03 (He was out on the track the day before most of us got there). For the record he was running a stock setup with hawk blue pads and some ducting. When he told me this I told him to back off in the brake zones and they will last. For example I had him braking at the 41/2 marker on the front straight. In the first day Denis was there he destoryed a set of rotors and I think pads (Denis can you please chim in). On the second day with the two of us in the car for most of the day (car would have been over 4000 pounds) we made the brakes last the whole day and there was much less wear on the rotors.

Thomas

[b_tone]

Coming down the hill into 11a

you mean 10a right?

. I've always heard that the early/long braker will generate more heat than the hard/short braker. I see a lot of people practically coasting with the brake on and I believe this kills pad life.

If you are going 150 and brake to 50 mph you have the same amount of energy to dissapate. Pe=1/2mV^2 is the governing equation relaying potential energy to velocity. You will have the same amount of energy being converted into heat and the shorter amount of time that is is done in (i.e. the harder the brakes are used) the shorter the time you allow this heat to dissapate. The heat is then built up and retained in the system so immedietly following your banzi braking style you may have a reduced braking force in the next corner.

basically you will not generate more heat (from a systems perspective), you just a spike in the temp of the rotor in a shorter period of time and this will require a longer cooling period.

Does this make any sense or did I just muddy the waters?

[thomasmoran1]

Originally posted by b_tone
you mean 10a right?

Your right. I just went the Road Atlanta web site and they actually have no turn 11 listed. I just assumed that the chicane was the last set of turns before 12 which is the last turn on the track. I guess they count the up hill going into 12 also. Thanks for pointing that out.

Thomas

[Dean95CobraR]

Originally posted by b_tone
basically you will not generate more heat (from a systems perspective), you just a spike in the temp of the rotor in a shorter period of time and this will require a longer cooling period.

Does this make any sense or did I just muddy the waters?

A little mirky.

Are you saying that if the end temp of the rotors equal 700F, the amount of time it takes to cool off is related to how the heat was generated - long/soft vs short/hard?

[98banana]

Originally posted by thomasmoran1
Your right. I just went the Road Atlanta web site and they actually have no turn 11 listed. I just assumed that the chicane was the last set of turns before 12 which is the last turn on the track. I guess they count the up hill going into 12 also. Thanks for pointing that out.

Thomas

I think turn 11 is uder the bridge. The 2 turns before that are 10a and 10b.

When I was chasing down the Porsche before my fender-bender, I would make up a lot of ground under braking coming into 10a. And no matter how late I braked, I could have braked later.

Now as far as turn 12, I have never heard of that one.

[Dean95CobraR]

Originally posted by thomasmoran1
Dean, those brakes are much better than anything on our cars but they are still doing the same thing. Turning Kentic energy into heat. When we were in MAM and I was instructing Denis, he was telling me how he was having brake fade and wear problems with his 03 (He was out on the track the day before most of us got there). For the record he was running a stock setup with hawk blue pads and some ducting. When he told me this I told him to back off in the brake zones and they will last. For example I had him braking at the 41/2 marker on the front straight. In the first day Denis was there he destoryed a set of rotors and I think pads (Denis can you please chim in). On the second day with the two of us in the car for most of the day (car would have been over 4000 pounds) we made the brakes last the whole day and there was much less wear on the rotors.

Thomas

Yep, I forgot about that. I didn't realize that Dennis was using Hawk Blues the first day.

[98banana]

Originally posted by Dean95CobraR
A little mirky.

Are you saying that if the end temp of the rotors equal 700F, the amount of time it takes to cool off is related to how the heat was generated - long/soft vs short/hard?

I was thinking that too, but what tone says actually makes a little sense because the brakes start dissapating heat as soon as the braking starts. That means earlier braking starts cooling earlier. If that's not correct, then I still think that harder braking is easier on the brakes...

And I didn't even stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night.

[Dean95CobraR]

Originally posted by 98banana
And I didn't even stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night.

But did you drive by one on your long trip to work?

[thomasmoran1]

Originally posted by 98banana
I was thinking that too, but what tone says actually makes a little sense because the brakes start dissapating heat as soon as the braking starts. That means earlier braking starts cooling earlier. If that's not correct, then I still think that harder braking is easier on the brakes...

And I didn't even stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night.

Tom, think of when your at the track and think of how when someone is out there for their first time they can get away with a stock setup in most cases because they are not braking hard enough to generate more heat then the stock setup can handle. But then as they start getting faster they need to upgrade their brakes to cope with the extra heat which increases wear.

Thomas

[Dean95CobraR]

Originally posted by thomasmoran1
Tom, think of when your at the track and think of how when someone is out there for their first time they can get away with a stock setup in most cases because they are not braking hard enough to generate more heat then the stock setup can handle. But then as they start getting faster they need to upgrade their brakes to cope with the extra heat which increases wear.

Thomas

That analogy really doesn't relate to the discussion about braking technique though. Everyone agrees that more speed will generate more heat.

[svt_coupe]

I haven't finished reading this thread but wanted to toss out a couple of things.

In the first part of the year, I was running my ducting in a funky way. Found out that only about 20% (rough guess) of the air was getting to where it needed to be. After re-routing the ducting, brake wear got better.

Then I got a torque arm. The wear rate of the front pads was improved dramatically. I started using more rear pads, but that's because I was no longer trying to launch the rear of the car over the top of the car underbraking. The rears actually started working. Also, I don't have a bias adjuster so the rears still aren't contributing like they should be. And, I trail brake.

Since the torque arm, my braking has improved (literally, the actually braking power of the car) and I'm on the same set of front pads that I installed for Lowes. 6 races and I still have pads left...

I did, however, get through the season on 1 set of Toyo's...