Driving School Suggestion Box

bolt-on · 09-29-2005, 09:49 AM

One of the main objectives of SCMC Driving Schools is to give club members a place to drive their high performance cars to the limit in a relatively safe environment. A secondary objective would be for the experience to encourage attendees to return in the future. Particularly in the beginners group, we are not currently meeting this secondary objective. At most events as attrition takes its toll, late Sunday becomes open track with all groups mixed on the track at once. I have heard more than one comment over the years from beginners that having much faster cars constantly overtaking them was just too intimidating. Some of these people have never returned to track events. My suggestion would be to keep the beginning group as a separate run group for the entire weekend. Some beginning drivers will have the skill and desire to run with faster cars. If instructor and driver agree they can always be advanced to another run group.

johnbasf · 09-29-2005, 04:15 PM

I combine groups 1&2 IF there is a light turnout to grid on Sunday afternoon. I agree that we shouild never mix 1&2 with 3&4.

tazzracing1 · 09-29-2005, 05:12 PM

I think it would be worth a try to keep up the attendance and to let the people gain confidence in what they are doing.

**cobrabitn** · 09-29-2005, 08:29 PM

I agree with what John said...if one and two are light then it appears that it would be okay to mix the two groups. I don't think mixing advanced/instructor groups with beginners would be a good idea as it would be detrimental to both groups. I ran in the instructor group at Gingerman and they were all over my car two or three times during the session; however, it was probably more bothersome to them then it was to me.

If this was a problem in the past events then why are we just now bringing it up 5 years later? I think your point is a very valid one and I'll be sure to get with the event organizers to insure we don't have the mixing of inexperienced participants with experienced ones. Thanks for bringing this to our attention!

beerkat · 09-30-2005, 10:36 AM

I think that mixing 1 & 2 on late Sunday is fine. I would however like to see that classroom part split groups 1 & 2.

**Cobra-R** · 10-04-2005, 09:04 PM

Sorry I am late, I didn't see this post until now.

Thanks Larry for the input. I made the call at Gingerman and will take the resposibility for it. My logic from my point of view was that the car count at that point in the day (about 3:30 pm) was so small that it wouldn't be a issue.

I think it is our duty as organizers to recognize concerns like Larry is bringing up here. Some participants might mention a concern like this to our members but not be willing to bring it up to a officer/organizer. That feedback in a great tool for making our events better.

We will be more conscious of this in the future. Thanks again for the input.

Brian

bolt-on · 10-11-2005, 10:59 AM

No need for apologies. Most participants at GingerMan were sporting huge smiles. My intent at starting this thread was simply to offer a suggestion for future events. I would also like to encourage others who have suggestions for improving our track events to post them.

black94cobra · 10-11-2005, 11:30 AM

I don't know what your policies are for passing within the different groups since I have never been to one of your track events (they always seem to fall on NASA weekends darn it!) but I would think that if you are mixing novice and advanced drivers together you would set the session to follow the novice rules (passing zones on the straights only) and if a novice can't handle being passed on a straight maybe the track is not the place for them. Just my 2 cents worth.

**Cobra-R** · 10-11-2005, 01:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by black94cobra

I don't know what your policies are for passing within the different groups since I have never been to one of your track events (they always seem to fall on NASA weekends darn it!) but I would think that if you are mixing novice and advanced drivers together you would set the session to follow the novice rules (passing zones on the straights only) and if a novice can't handle being passed on a straight maybe the track is not the place for them. Just my 2 cents worth.

Jim,
The passing rules were the same for all groups except for the instructors.

Brian

johnbasf · 10-11-2005, 03:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by black94cobra

I don't know what your policies are for passing within the different groups since I have never been to one of your track events (they always seem to fall on NASA weekends darn it!) but I would think that if you are mixing novice and advanced drivers together you would set the session to follow the novice rules (passing zones on the straights only) and if a novice can't handle being passed on a straight maybe the track is not the place for them. Just my 2 cents worth.

Thanks Jim, there will be no more mixing of those 2 groups.

timz06 · 10-31-2005, 10:02 PM

I think most people leave on Sunday because;
1. they want to get home and unload to get ready for work on monday
2. they had enough and are tired

I always stay all day on Sunday, it is the best time to run since everyone packs up, hardly anyone on track. It's tough to do though, as staying until 5pm and then driving 5-6 hours makes for a long day. Then you still need to unload the trailer etc. Usually, I take a day off on Mon and head back in the am, but I'm sure a lot of people don't have that luxury.

I've run for three years with this group and think they have done a great job. This year got a bit behind, because of the race cars dumping oil, catching on fire etc. but I enjoyed the race, and thought it was and still is a good idea.

I would prefer only having 4 groups, thus giving more track time, eliminating either the convertable/truck group or the instructor group. I think the instructors can run with the advanced guys. Usually the instructor group only has a few people out there, not a good use of track time.

BTTBSS · 11-28-2005, 04:40 PM

I ran CMP in 2005 in group II. I also ran with NASA at Putnam Park. The SVT event was much less crowded and better managed. NASA combined Group II and Group III. IMHO that was not a great idea.There were over 40 cars on less than 2 miles of track. PP was congested and not nearly as enjoyable due to the traffic on course. One thing the class sessions might address better is how to enter and leave the track to find running room and how to indentify faster cars in your group and grid behind them in later sessions.

BTTBSS

09-29-2005, 09:49 AM	#1
bolt-on WingNuts Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Cereal City, USA Posts: 273	Driving School Suggestion Box One of the main objectives of SCMC Driving Schools is to give club members a place to drive their high performance cars to the limit in a relatively safe environment. A secondary objective would be for the experience to encourage attendees to return in the future. Particularly in the beginners group, we are not currently meeting this secondary objective. At most events as attrition takes its toll, late Sunday becomes open track with all groups mixed on the track at once. I have heard more than one comment over the years from beginners that having much faster cars constantly overtaking them was just too intimidating. Some of these people have never returned to track events. My suggestion would be to keep the beginning group as a separate run group for the entire weekend. Some beginning drivers will have the skill and desire to run with faster cars. If instructor and driver agree they can always be advanced to another run group. __________________ Larry & Janice Bolton 1997 Crystal White Cobra Coupe (open-track ride) 1965 Tropical Turquoise Mustang 2+2 (cruise night car) 1997 Rio Red GT Convertible (MCA show pony) 2007 Vista Blue California Special (her summer daily driver)

09-29-2005, 04:15 PM	#2
johnbasf Registered User Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Lewisville,NC Posts: 2,674	I combine groups 1&2 IF there is a light turnout to grid on Sunday afternoon. I agree that we shouild never mix 1&2 with 3&4. __________________ John Pearson

09-29-2005, 05:12 PM	#3
tazzracing1 SCMC Member Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Paw Paw, michigan Posts: 904	I think it would be worth a try to keep up the attendance and to let the people gain confidence in what they are doing. __________________ 2003 S/C Cobra(born 6/10/2002 #439 of 8394) 2.93 pulley/Cold air intake X-pipe with cats/Magnaflowcatback Strut tower bar and subframe connectors MGW shifter second to none/best of the best Billetflow pullies with snub pulley 1997 Cobra(retired) www.michiganmustang.com

09-29-2005, 08:29 PM	#4
cobrabitn Dr Jekyll on the street, Mr Hyde on the track Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Rock Hill SC Posts: 14,649	I agree with what John said...if one and two are light then it appears that it would be okay to mix the two groups. I don't think mixing advanced/instructor groups with beginners would be a good idea as it would be detrimental to both groups. I ran in the instructor group at Gingerman and they were all over my car two or three times during the session; however, it was probably more bothersome to them then it was to me. If this was a problem in the past events then why are we just now bringing it up 5 years later? I think your point is a very valid one and I'll be sure to get with the event organizers to insure we don't have the mixing of inexperienced participants with experienced ones. Thanks for bringing this to our attention! __________________ Cobrabitn 2016 Ruby Red Metallic with Caribou accent F-350 Crew Cab Stump Puller! 6.7 Diesel Automatic with Chrome Package, Off Road Package, 3.55 Locking axles, and Ultimate Lariat Interior Trim Package! 2017 Shelby GT350 Coupe - track car! Mods: JLT True Cold Air oil catch can 2009 Vista Blue Shelby GT 500 Coupe - Garage Queen Tinted Windows JLT True Cold Air Kit Pro-Dyno Tune 526 rwhp - 511 rwtq 1994 Rio Red Indy Pace Car #22 "Runabout" Snake in the grill MGW shift knob 1996 SVT Cobra Wheels 1969 New Lime Mustang Mach 1 Sportsroof - Second owner - bone stock with shaker. One SVT Cobra, one Shelby GT500, one 69 mach 1, and a Shelby GT350 is better than nothing! Custom Data Plates for your Mustang or Ford! Buy "Cool Merchandise" at Data Plates Plus www.dataplatesplus.com See my MSR Video here!

10-04-2005, 09:04 PM	#6
Cobra-R Super Moderator Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: minn-e-soda Posts: 8,868	Sorry I am late, I didn't see this post until now. Thanks Larry for the input. I made the call at Gingerman and will take the resposibility for it. My logic from my point of view was that the car count at that point in the day (about 3:30 pm) was so small that it wouldn't be a issue. I think it is our duty as organizers to recognize concerns like Larry is bringing up here. Some participants might mention a concern like this to our members but not be willing to bring it up to a officer/organizer. That feedback in a great tool for making our events better. We will be more conscious of this in the future. Thanks again for the input. Brian __________________ Brian Groth 2006 NASA Midwest AI Champion 2005 NASA Midwest AI champion 2011 BMW M3 2010 Camaro SS 2008 Corvette Z06 2000 Cobra R #131 of 300 1995 Cobra R #23 (AV8SS and NASA AI #23) I'm out of my mind, but feel free to leave a message...

09-30-2005, 10:36 AM	#5
beerkat Registered User Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Myrtle Beach, SC Posts: 471	I think that mixing 1 & 2 on late Sunday is fine. I would however like to see that classroom part split groups 1 & 2.

10-11-2005, 10:59 AM	#7
bolt-on WingNuts Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Cereal City, USA Posts: 273	No need for apologies. Most participants at GingerMan were sporting huge smiles. My intent at starting this thread was simply to offer a suggestion for future events. I would also like to encourage others who have suggestions for improving our track events to post them. __________________ Larry & Janice Bolton 1997 Crystal White Cobra Coupe (open-track ride) 1965 Tropical Turquoise Mustang 2+2 (cruise night car) 1997 Rio Red GT Convertible (MCA show pony) 2007 Vista Blue California Special (her summer daily driver)

10-11-2005, 11:30 AM	#8
black94cobra Registered User Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Charlotte, NC Posts: 12	I don't know what your policies are for passing within the different groups since I have never been to one of your track events (they always seem to fall on NASA weekends darn it!) but I would think that if you are mixing novice and advanced drivers together you would set the session to follow the novice rules (passing zones on the straights only) and if a novice can't handle being passed on a straight maybe the track is not the place for them. Just my 2 cents worth. __________________ Jim Price Co-Director, NASA-SE Time Trials 1994 Cobra, black on black (Toy) 1991 Mustang (race car) 2004 F-150 (Tow vehicle)

10-31-2005, 10:02 PM	#11
timz06 Registered User Join Date: Mar 2003 Posts: 112	I think most people leave on Sunday because; 1. they want to get home and unload to get ready for work on monday 2. they had enough and are tired I always stay all day on Sunday, it is the best time to run since everyone packs up, hardly anyone on track. It's tough to do though, as staying until 5pm and then driving 5-6 hours makes for a long day. Then you still need to unload the trailer etc. Usually, I take a day off on Mon and head back in the am, but I'm sure a lot of people don't have that luxury. I've run for three years with this group and think they have done a great job. This year got a bit behind, because of the race cars dumping oil, catching on fire etc. but I enjoyed the race, and thought it was and still is a good idea. I would prefer only having 4 groups, thus giving more track time, eliminating either the convertable/truck group or the instructor group. I think the instructors can run with the advanced guys. Usually the instructor group only has a few people out there, not a good use of track time. __________________ 2001 z06

11-28-2005, 04:40 PM	#12
BTTBSS Registered User Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Music City Posts: 63	HPDE Grouping I ran CMP in 2005 in group II. I also ran with NASA at Putnam Park. The SVT event was much less crowded and better managed. NASA combined Group II and Group III. IMHO that was not a great idea.There were over 40 cars on less than 2 miles of track. PP was congested and not nearly as enjoyable due to the traffic on course. One thing the class sessions might address better is how to enter and leave the track to find running room and how to indentify faster cars in your group and grid behind them in later sessions. BTTBSS __________________

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