bilsteins tokico..what to choose

SVTNICK · 05-17-2002, 12:20 PM

Question..does anybody know if tokico will be building the 5 way adjustable shocks for the 99-003 CObra's?? Im trying to decide what to do with my suspension..so far im thinking of the Kenny Brown Sport suspension...and I was hoping to get the 5 ways tokico shocks to install too..but so far it doesnt like they will be making them for us 99-03 owners..

..so what is the next best choice i should get that will give me great performance..whether it be driving a few thousand miles across country..or at the track/strip...the best all around...

my guess is bilstein..any opinions??

Thanks

tdalsanto · 05-18-2002, 11:32 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by SVTNICK
Question..does anybody know if tokico will be building the 5 way adjustable shocks for the 99-003 CObra's?? Im trying to decide what to do with my suspension..so far im thinking of the Kenny Brown Sport suspension...and I was hoping to get the 5 ways tokico shocks to install too..but so far it doesnt like they will be making them for us 99-03 owners....so what is the next best choice i should get that will give me great performance..whether it be driving a few thousand miles across country..or at the track/strip...the best all around...

my guess is bilstein..any opinions??

Thanks

-----------------

we highly recommend the Koni adjustables if you want to be able to adjust them yourself - . Go with the Bilsteins if you want the self adjustables, in other words, if you don't want to mess with them. The Koni's and the Bilsteins are excellant choices !!

redsnake99 · 05-19-2002, 08:33 AM

Here's some info from my inquiry about adjustables for the rear on my 99 Cobra:

-----Original Message-----
From: Kenny Brown Sales [mailto:kbsales@kennybrown.com]
Sent: Thursday, May 02, 2002 12:40 PM
To: 'Dave Stanfield'
Subject: RE: Adjustable rear shocks for 99 Cobra

The price on the KONI shocks are so high because they are a double-adjustable shock and have a unique valving just for the IRS Cobras. They are also a low volume product as there are not as many Cobras with the IRS. It is the basic laws of supply and demand. KONI makes the only high-quality adjustable shock on the market today, the technology and valving are state of the art. The cost of the shocks is really very reasonable by todays standards especially when you consider how dramatic the difference in peformance is.

The Bilstein shocks may be better suited for your needs, although they are adjustable, they are a very good alternative to an adjustable shock. The Bilstein shock uses a unique valving system that provides the best comprimise between comfort and control on the street and is very well suited for the race track. The Bilstein shocks are $129 each.

KONI and Bilstein are the only shocks we use on the IRS Cobras. There is nothing better!

I would go with the Bilstein shocks because they more than likely can meet your real needs in both performance and price. You desire the adjustable shocks but probably don't need them. If you are not familiar with the valving theories and principals of a double-adjustable shock it may be difficult for you to tune the car to your different uses. This more expensive, higher technology shock may be more than you really need.

-----Original Message-----
From: Dave Stanfield [mailto:dstanfield@nc.rr.com]
Sent: Wednesday, May 01, 2002 6:21 PM
To: kbsales@kennybrown.com
Subject: RE: Adjustable rear shocks for 99 Cobra

That price is really high. Too much for my needs. Why is it so high?

Dave Stanfield

-----Original Message-----
From: Kenny Brown Sales [mailto:kbsales@kennybrown.com]
Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2002 3:17 PM
To: dstanfield@nc.rr.com
Subject: FW: Adjustable rear shocks for 99 Cobra

i DO HAVE AN AJUSTABLE SHOCK AVAILABLE FOR YOUR 99 COBRA THEY ARE $335.00 EACH IF YOU ARE INTERESTED IN ORDERING THESE, PLEASE GIVE ME A CALL AT 317-247-5320 THANKS MIKE ALLEN KENNY BROWN PERFORMANCE

-----Original Message-----
From: Dave Stanfield [mailto:dstanfield@nc.rr.com]
Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2002 1:35 PM
To: kbsales@kennybrown.com
Subject: Adjustable rear shocks for 99 Cobra

Where can I get them? My 99 Cobra is an everyday driver, occasional open track, occasional drags day. Would like adjustables…..who makes them to fit IRS Cobra?

Dave Stanfield

SVTNICK · 05-19-2002, 06:55 PM

Thanks for the info..I took a ride in a firends 98 with the 5 way adjustables..he liked em because he could go off and race when he puts em on 1..and then cruise home on five and pretend he was in a caddy...was very cool indeed..but of course he doesnt have the IRS like us... but if I want the adjustables..KB is saying Koni for 300 each..yikes..!!

How easy can they be adjusted? Has anybody ever seen or used them??

Redsnake, How do you like the bilsteins so far?? How is ride quality??

Thanks!!

redsnake99 · 05-19-2002, 08:45 PM

I have Tokiko adjustables up front, still stock in the back. That's why I made the inquiry to KB. Just wasn't excited about his answers. I love the Tokoko Illumina struts, great at stiffest setting on track, comfortable at low settings for every day.

Third Clue: Yes, I ran at XXX today, South Course, 135 MPH on the front straight.

98Cobretti · 05-19-2002, 09:15 PM

I just bought the bilsteins myself, but I have yet to receive them, the rears for my car are on backorder. If you want to get a good price though, go to www.bimmerparts.com , they had the lowest price I could find, and they are an authorized dealer for bilstein. For the complete set for my 98 it was $465.

skankin · 06-07-2002, 11:56 AM

When you adjust the tokico's firmer, it makes the compression & rebound firmer (together). If you're adjusting for firmer springs, you probably don't want more compression as well. Also, even though they're adjustable, they're just not designed for really heavy spring rates (probably 650# max).

The bullitt suspension kit uses 600 & 250# springs with tokico's valved to match. The internals are the same quality as the illumina's, they're just not adjustable. You can get the whole kit from www.gefracing.com for $335... no good for the IRS though.

Like the koni reds, tok's are a low pressure, twin tube design, with internal springs that will gradually wear out.

The Hal shocks are supposedly a monotube, deflective disk design, but I don't think they use a high gas pressure... and I've heard of fading during abuse. Seems to be another cheap alternative.

The koni sports are monotubes with deflective disc valving. Supposedly more consistant, and lasts longer... although I think the adjustable valves are probably still spring-loaded... but they are rebuildable.

The koni SA's keep the compression constant, and just adjust the rebound (to adjust for spring rate, and provide some tie-down effect). Their rebound often adjusts from an industry standard valving of around 3, up to a very firm 8 or 9!

The DA's are awesome, but pricie.

Bilstein has monotubes with large pistons & digressive valving. Supposedly ride really well, and last forever. I think the large strut rod is a better design too...

The SVO/SVT guys have been using them since at least '86 (they were valved to match the 5300C springs). The 2000 cobra R used bils, and you can get them quite cheap from places like www.buyfordmotorsport.com (the struts are #M-18124-R00, and go for $275 a pair!). These were valved for the heavy 5.4L SC with 800# springs. The new '03 cobra uses bilsteins as well.

Here's some valving info:

Front strut,
sport H = 1300/540 N = 292/121 lbs = 5.5 / 2
cobra R = 1440/450 N = 323/101 lbs = 6 / 1.5

Rear shocks,
IRS H = 1600/745 N = 360/167 lbs = 6.5 / 3
IRS R = 2280/1145 N = 512/257 lbs = 8 / 5

Most of Bilstein's mustang-specific rear shocks are actually twin-tubes. I went with a monotube, digressive-valved short track shock. There are many valvings:

http://www.stockcarproducts.com/bshocks.htm

The inboard IRS requires lots of valving though, so you'd probably be limited to the 7/4.5, 8/4 or 8/6. With a heavy spring rate, the 8/4 would probably ride nice. I don't know what length you'd want, or how you'd wanna mount them though...

Hopefully I'll finally get my bils on this weekend!

05-17-2002, 12:20 PM	#1
SVTNICK Registered User Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: NJ Posts: 77	bilsteins tokico..what to choose Question..does anybody know if tokico will be building the 5 way adjustable shocks for the 99-003 CObra's?? Im trying to decide what to do with my suspension..so far im thinking of the Kenny Brown Sport suspension...and I was hoping to get the 5 ways tokico shocks to install too..but so far it doesnt like they will be making them for us 99-03 owners....so what is the next best choice i should get that will give me great performance..whether it be driving a few thousand miles across country..or at the track/strip...the best all around... my guess is bilstein..any opinions?? Thanks __________________ 2001 Cobra. #3425 out of 3867 Build Date 8/24/01 1986 Mustang GT BLACK/t-tOPS 1986 Capri RS White/T-Tops 1999 Maxima SE NEW ARRIVAL1986 Mustang Convertible V6 and all..finally got it from my mom..took about 3 years..lol Now its time for the mods.

05-19-2002, 08:33 AM	#3
redsnake99 SCMC Member Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: NV, NY, SC Posts: 1,241	Here's some info from my inquiry about adjustables for the rear on my 99 Cobra: -----Original Message----- From: Kenny Brown Sales [mailto:kbsales@kennybrown.com] Sent: Thursday, May 02, 2002 12:40 PM To: 'Dave Stanfield' Subject: RE: Adjustable rear shocks for 99 Cobra The price on the KONI shocks are so high because they are a double-adjustable shock and have a unique valving just for the IRS Cobras. They are also a low volume product as there are not as many Cobras with the IRS. It is the basic laws of supply and demand. KONI makes the only high-quality adjustable shock on the market today, the technology and valving are state of the art. The cost of the shocks is really very reasonable by todays standards especially when you consider how dramatic the difference in peformance is. The Bilstein shocks may be better suited for your needs, although they are adjustable, they are a very good alternative to an adjustable shock. The Bilstein shock uses a unique valving system that provides the best comprimise between comfort and control on the street and is very well suited for the race track. The Bilstein shocks are $129 each. KONI and Bilstein are the only shocks we use on the IRS Cobras. There is nothing better! I would go with the Bilstein shocks because they more than likely can meet your real needs in both performance and price. You desire the adjustable shocks but probably don't need them. If you are not familiar with the valving theories and principals of a double-adjustable shock it may be difficult for you to tune the car to your different uses. This more expensive, higher technology shock may be more than you really need. -----Original Message----- From: Dave Stanfield [mailto:dstanfield@nc.rr.com] Sent: Wednesday, May 01, 2002 6:21 PM To: kbsales@kennybrown.com Subject: RE: Adjustable rear shocks for 99 Cobra That price is really high. Too much for my needs. Why is it so high? Dave Stanfield -----Original Message----- From: Kenny Brown Sales [mailto:kbsales@kennybrown.com] Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2002 3:17 PM To: dstanfield@nc.rr.com Subject: FW: Adjustable rear shocks for 99 Cobra i DO HAVE AN AJUSTABLE SHOCK AVAILABLE FOR YOUR 99 COBRA THEY ARE $335.00 EACH IF YOU ARE INTERESTED IN ORDERING THESE, PLEASE GIVE ME A CALL AT 317-247-5320 THANKS MIKE ALLEN KENNY BROWN PERFORMANCE -----Original Message----- From: Dave Stanfield [mailto:dstanfield@nc.rr.com] Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2002 1:35 PM To: kbsales@kennybrown.com Subject: Adjustable rear shocks for 99 Cobra Where can I get them? My 99 Cobra is an everyday driver, occasional open track, occasional drags day. Would like adjustables…..who makes them to fit IRS Cobra? Dave Stanfield __________________ Dave Stanfield - SCMC 424

05-19-2002, 06:55 PM	#4
SVTNICK Registered User Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: NJ Posts: 77	Thanks for the info..I took a ride in a firends 98 with the 5 way adjustables..he liked em because he could go off and race when he puts em on 1..and then cruise home on five and pretend he was in a caddy...was very cool indeed..but of course he doesnt have the IRS like us... but if I want the adjustables..KB is saying Koni for 300 each..yikes..!! How easy can they be adjusted? Has anybody ever seen or used them?? Redsnake, How do you like the bilsteins so far?? How is ride quality?? Thanks!! __________________ 2001 Cobra. #3425 out of 3867 Build Date 8/24/01 1986 Mustang GT BLACK/t-tOPS 1986 Capri RS White/T-Tops 1999 Maxima SE NEW ARRIVAL1986 Mustang Convertible V6 and all..finally got it from my mom..took about 3 years..lol Now its time for the mods.

05-19-2002, 08:45 PM	#5
redsnake99 SCMC Member Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: NV, NY, SC Posts: 1,241	I have Tokiko adjustables up front, still stock in the back. That's why I made the inquiry to KB. Just wasn't excited about his answers. I love the Tokoko Illumina struts, great at stiffest setting on track, comfortable at low settings for every day. Third Clue: Yes, I ran at XXX today, South Course, 135 MPH on the front straight. __________________ Dave Stanfield - SCMC 424

05-19-2002, 09:15 PM	#6
98Cobretti Registered User Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Rancho Santa Margarita, CA Posts: 80	I just bought the bilsteins myself, but I have yet to receive them, the rears for my car are on backorder. If you want to get a good price though, go to www.bimmerparts.com , they had the lowest price I could find, and they are an authorized dealer for bilstein. For the complete set for my 98 it was $465. __________________ 1998 Cobra Coupe #4877 SCMC #557 Bassani X-pipe w cats Flowmaster 2 chambers WMS Velocity Tube Pro-m 87mm MAF K&N Bilstein Struts/shocks Eibach Pro Springs 18x9" Cobra R ('95)'s Nitto 555 265/35/18 Subframe Connectors Lakewood Traction-Action LCA's Steeda Tri-Ax 266 RWHP, 269 RWTQ 65 Mustang Coupe 302ci bored .030, trw forged pistons, comp cams 270h cam .501 lift .224 duration @.050, performer intake, holley 4bbl, re-worked heads, jacobs elec ignition, custom ram air setup, elec fan, hedman long tube headers, FMS 9mm plug wires, canton windage tray, 2.5" exhaust, 2 chamber flowmasters, 9" rear w 3.25 gears, FMS aluminum driveshaft, 4 wheel disc brakes, 17x8 TTII wheels, 4pt roll bar, simpson belts, auto c-4 trans, b&m quicksilver shifter, kyb shocks, 620lb springs, relocated control arms w negative wedge kit, 4 1/2 leaf rear springs, rear seat delete, subframe connectors, manual brakes/steering/no AC, shelby quicksteering kit, shelby gt350 R front valance, piaa lights, autometer guages, tcp pedals(still in progress) 225 RWHP , 260 RWTQ My Website http://members.cox.net/hk_sniper

06-07-2002, 11:56 AM	#7
skankin Registered User Join Date: May 2002 Location: London, Ontario, Canada Posts: 4	When you adjust the tokico's firmer, it makes the compression & rebound firmer (together). If you're adjusting for firmer springs, you probably don't want more compression as well. Also, even though they're adjustable, they're just not designed for really heavy spring rates (probably 650# max). The bullitt suspension kit uses 600 & 250# springs with tokico's valved to match. The internals are the same quality as the illumina's, they're just not adjustable. You can get the whole kit from www.gefracing.com for $335... no good for the IRS though. Like the koni reds, tok's are a low pressure, twin tube design, with internal springs that will gradually wear out. The Hal shocks are supposedly a monotube, deflective disk design, but I don't think they use a high gas pressure... and I've heard of fading during abuse. Seems to be another cheap alternative. The koni sports are monotubes with deflective disc valving. Supposedly more consistant, and lasts longer... although I think the adjustable valves are probably still spring-loaded... but they are rebuildable. The koni SA's keep the compression constant, and just adjust the rebound (to adjust for spring rate, and provide some tie-down effect). Their rebound often adjusts from an industry standard valving of around 3, up to a very firm 8 or 9! The DA's are awesome, but pricie. Bilstein has monotubes with large pistons & digressive valving. Supposedly ride really well, and last forever. I think the large strut rod is a better design too... The SVO/SVT guys have been using them since at least '86 (they were valved to match the 5300C springs). The 2000 cobra R used bils, and you can get them quite cheap from places like www.buyfordmotorsport.com (the struts are #M-18124-R00, and go for $275 a pair!). These were valved for the heavy 5.4L SC with 800# springs. The new '03 cobra uses bilsteins as well. Here's some valving info: Front strut, sport H = 1300/540 N = 292/121 lbs = 5.5 / 2 cobra R = 1440/450 N = 323/101 lbs = 6 / 1.5 Rear shocks, IRS H = 1600/745 N = 360/167 lbs = 6.5 / 3 IRS R = 2280/1145 N = 512/257 lbs = 8 / 5 Most of Bilstein's mustang-specific rear shocks are actually twin-tubes. I went with a monotube, digressive-valved short track shock. There are many valvings: http://www.stockcarproducts.com/bshocks.htm The inboard IRS requires lots of valving though, so you'd probably be limited to the 7/4.5, 8/4 or 8/6. With a heavy spring rate, the 8/4 would probably ride nice. I don't know what length you'd want, or how you'd wanna mount them though... Hopefully I'll finally get my bils on this weekend! __________________ 89.5 stang.

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