speed secrets

[Dean95CobraR]

Originally posted by 98banana


What Bryan said is exactly how to catch a Viper. Take the corners right and your straight speeds will increase enough to make up for a car with more HP taking bad turns.

Here's the way I see it. The straights do win races because that's where the speed is, but you need to get the corners right to take advantage of the straights. If you blow the turn, ie. fast in slow out, then the straight suffers and you get passed by somebody that took the turn better. You get passed in the straights because the other car was better in the turn. So, I guess it's all a matter of symantics.

I am a firm believer in getting the corners right first. I've caught up with way too many cars, including vipers, because my car can take the corners. They would take off and leave me in the straights only because of sheer HP, but I would catch up in the next braking zone and stay with them in the curves.

You guys are making my point. If you can't get through the corners, the straightaway speed will suffer. Everything seems to be effected by your cornering technique and that's why I think the corners are more important than the straights. That's why I think that statement is backwards

I'm not trying to argue, just trying to understand the statement. I wish I could state my case more effectively. I know Ross Bently knows a helluva lot more than me, as do most of you, but the statement seems backwards or at least one is as important as the other.

If you guys had a choice, which would it be? Better in the corners or faster on the straights.

[kevin]

Originally posted by johnbasf
If that's true how did Tom catch up with the Viper? Man you guys are really confusing the hell out of me. I have been thinking about getting the kind of setup Tom has, but I guess I'll just get a blower and beat everyone. Excuse this newbie for he is trying to learn.

viper error??????

[Cobra-R]

Originally posted by Dean95CobraR



You guys are making my point. If you can't get through the corners, the straightaway speed will suffer. Everything seems to be effected by your cornering technique and that's why I think the corners are more important than the straights. That's why I think that statement is backwards

I'm not trying to argue, just trying to understand the statement. I wish I could state my case more effectively. I know Ross Bently knows a helluva lot more than me, as do most of you, but the statement seems backwards or at least one is as important as the other.

If you guys had a choice, which would it be? Better in the corners or faster on the straights.

My thoughts are exactly the same as yours, dean. The talk about Straight away speed seems very dependant on your corner exit speed.

[kevin]

Originally posted by Dean95CobraR



You guys are making my point. If you can't get through the corners, the straightaway speed will suffer. Everything seems to be effected by your cornering technique and that's why I think the corners are more important than the straights. That's why I think that statement is backwards

I'm not trying to argue, just trying to understand the statement. I wish I could state my case more effectively. I know Ross Bently knows a helluva lot more than me, as do most of you, but the statement seems backwards or at least one is as important as the other.

If you guys had a choice, which would it be? Better in the corners or faster on the straights.

in the open track events i would say faster in the straights cause that is where passing is usually restricted too and too many high hp cars hold ya back in the turns and blast the straights.

in a race or nasa event where passing is allowed anywhere (depending on your run group) i'd rather be faster in the corner.

unlike road america and vir, most tracks have rather short straights. if you nail the corner better than the next guy you have a better chance of passing immediately out of the corner even if he/she has more power. if you take a turn at 50mph and the other guy slows to 45mph and has more power - he's gonna catch ya - eventually. but, if your exit speed is higher, you have the advantage out and the other guy has to catch up, and maybe not before the next turn (again, most tracks have short straights) if you continue to do better in the corners you will slowly but surely outpace over time.

now take my speed example up a notch. accelerating from 45 or 50 is fairly easy at those speeds. but, if you take the turn at 100mph and the other guy does so at 95mph (generally but not always) the 5mph is harder to make up even fopr a higher hp car.

did i make this clear enough?? not sure i said it right.

[Cobra-R]

Originally posted by kevin


in the open track events i would say faster in the straights cause that is where passing is usually restricted too and too many high hp cars hold ya back in the turns and blast the straights.

in a race or nasa event where passing is allowed anywhere (depending on your run group) i'd rather be faster in the corner.

unlike road america and vir, most tracks have rather short straights. if you nail the corner better than the next guy you have a better chance of passing immediately out of the corner even if he/she has more power. if you take a turn at 50mph and the other guy slows to 45mph and has more power - he's gonna catch ya - eventually. but, if your exit speed is higher, you have the advantage out and the other guy has to catch up, and maybe not before the next turn (again, most tracks have short straights) if you continue to do better in the corners you will slowly but surely outpace over time.

now take my speed example up a notch. accelerating from 45 or 50 is fairly easy at those speeds. but, if you take the turn at 100mph and the other guy does so at 95mph (generally but not always) the 5mph is harder to make up even fopr a higher hp car.

did i make this clear enough?? not sure i said it right.

That makes total sense, butt this bonehead still thinks that boils down to the corner being the secret to the higher straight away speed. Maybe it just the way we think that is backwards.

[kevin]

Originally posted by Dean95CobraR


This one seems a little strange to me. It seems like you can make up more time when you execute a perfect corner than you can just putting your foot to the floor. It takes much more skill to go quickly through a corner than a straightaway.

let me quote the book here.


"you are not just dealing with one particular coner, but rather a series of corners connected by straightaways. considering this, plus the fact that you will spend more time accelerating on a race track than you will just cornering, superior exit speed is far more important than cornering speed . it doesn't matter how fast you go thru the corner - if everyone passes you on the straight, you won't win a race. drive the corner in such a way as to maximize your straighaway speed."

the way i take this is speed on the straight is the winning key. but, you must take a corner properly to maintain the exit speed. most cars will try and pass on the exit in most races cause the cars are usually fairly mathed in the power department.

in open track events , passing only in the straights make the corner more important for a slower car.

this said, if you fail to make the corner equal to or better than the next guy. you'll play catch up on the straight.

i realize this might sound contridictory, but i don't know how else to explain waht i mean

[cobrabitn]

Ummm, I think he is trying to imply that I will be passed in the corners and the straights when we go to Road Atlanta? is that right?

[Cobra-R]

Originally posted by cobrabitn
Ummm, I think he is trying to imply that I will be passed in the corners and the straights when we go to Road Atlanta? is that right?

Tony,
He would never treat our beloved president with that small amount of respect.

[svt_coupe]

Originally posted by kevin


the way i take this is speed on the straight is the winning key. but, you must take a corner properly to maintain the exit speed. most cars will try and pass on the exit in most races cause the cars are usually fairly mathed in the power department.

in open track events , passing only in the straights make the corner more important for a slower car.

this said, if you fail to make the corner equal to or better than the next guy. you'll play catch up on the straight.

That's exactly how I think of it too. There are many factors that add up to "who will win", but I think the biggest factor is staightaway speed. Which, if you back it up, equates to preceding corner. So... yes, while the straightaway speed is more important, what gets you to the top speed? A maximum exit speed.

I think the statement simply says "races are won on straights". What he means is probably, "...because if you take the preceding corner correctly, you'll be fast on the straight. The faster car on the staights will win". This is true even on a dinky autocross course or a karting track.

Racing theory is a mindset that takes a while to get into. I'm not totally into it yet and don't know if can totally get there... I hope so, but MAN THERE'S A LOT TO LEARN!!

FWIW - There are corners on every track that can be thought of as a sacrifice or throwaway. While you want to maximize EVERY corner, you need to do it in a way that will grant you the highest exit speed on the corner that lead into straights. So, you might have to sacrifice taking Turn1 fast in order to setup for Turn3 correctly cause Turn3 leads to the back stretch, this way you'll be fast exiting T3... which will allow you to be fast on the straight... which will allow you to win races...

Analyze a track map. Seriously. Write down the longest staights in order. Now figure out the corner importance. Anyone have a track map they want to analyze? Post it and we'll figure it out...

[STU]

Originally posted by svt_coupe

I think the statement simply says "races are won on straights". What he means is probably, "...because if you take the preceding corner correctly, you'll be fast on the straight. The faster car on the staights will win". This is true even on a dinky autocross course or a karting track.

I hope this will make you understand it easier.......
Let's break it down to just the corner for a second. There are different techniques for getting through the corner itself at the same speed. The law of physics says you can only handle so many lateral G's before your tires break loose. You can charge into the corner fast and deep braking at the last moment just enough to be able to make the corner (maybe passing someone in the process.. Problem is you are on the edge of tire traction at turn in so you won't be able to get back on the gas until about the track out point.
Now let's brake a little sooner and enter the corner slightly slower. Because you are entering the corner slower and not yet at the edge of traction you can get back on the gas a lot sooner (right after turn in) not reaching your limit of traction until about track out point. Now you have momentum on your side for the length of the straight away. Even though you both got through the corner itself at about the same speed because you have the momentum you win!

You have all seen this happen.....NASCAR=the guy breaks later than the other guy and passes him but pushes up the track because he was at the limit of traction at turn in. The other car going a little slower at turn in simply turns underneath him mashes the gas and drives back by because he had the straight away momentum on his side. You have all seen the same thing happen on roadcourses.
They are just saying choose the way through the corner that gives you the best exit speed.

Hope I did not confuse you more.

[Cobra-R]

Originally posted by STU


I hope this will make you understand it easier.......
Let's break it down to just the corner for a second. There are different techniques for getting through the corner itself at the same speed. The law of physics says you can only handle so many lateral G's before your tires break loose. You can charge into the corner fast and deep braking at the last moment just enough to be able to make the corner (maybe passing someone in the process.. Problem is you are on the edge of tire traction at turn in so you won't be able to get back on the gas until about the track out point.
Now let's brake a little sooner and enter the corner slightly slower. Because you are entering the corner slower and not yet at the edge of traction you can get back on the gas a lot sooner (right after turn in) not reaching your limit of traction until about track out point. Now you have momentum on your side for the length of the straight away. Even though you both got through the corner itself at about the same speed because you have the momentum you win!

You have all seen this happen.....NASCAR=the guy breaks later than the other guy and passes him but pushes up the track because he was at the limit of traction at turn in. The other car going a little slower at turn in simply turns underneath him mashes the gas and drives back by because he had the straight away momentum on his side. You have all seen the same thing happen on roadcourses.
They are just saying choose the way through the corner that gives you the best exit speed.

Hope I did not confuse you more.

Those last two explainations make alot of sense to me now.

The other item I think Dean and I are missing is we are isolating this rule.

When we take this in conjuction with the "slow in fast out" corner rule it helps bring the whole thing together a little more also.

[kevin]

Originally posted by cobrabitn
Ummm, I think he is trying to imply that I will be passed in the corners and the straights when we go to Road Atlanta? is that right?

not neccessarily

[kevin]

Originally posted by Cobra-R


Those last two explainations make alot of sense to me now.

The other item I think Dean and I are missing is we are isolating this rule.

When we take this in conjuction with the "slow in fast out" corner rule it helps bring the whole thing together a little more also.

that's were the thot process should be looking at all corners in descending priority (as mentioned above)

[kevin]

and some people think racing isn't rocket science

[97whitevert]

There is so much to learn.......Is there any way to get this down b4 I get to Rd. Atlanta??????


I already nervous........