Braking and Downshifting - Page 2

justagt · 10-15-2002, 03:52 PM

I agree with Bryan and Brian. I use all the gears downshifting. Helps slow the car down. Also, factory rev limiters do NOT work when downshifting. So if you jam it into a lower gear while still going to fast, you could do some damage. KABOOM.

98banana · 10-15-2002, 04:46 PM

I have to think that excess use of the motor to slow the car down can't be good for it. I learned from my motocross days that it wasn't good to coast on the motor with a 2 stroke because the fuel is much leaner which makes for less lubrication. Of course, with 4 strokes there's no oil mix, but can that create an issue with a lean condition? Just wondering...

**Cobra-R** · 10-15-2002, 05:15 PM

I skip gears because it's alot cheaper to replace brakes then synchronizers and clutches.

Quote:

I use all the gears downshifting. Helps slow the car down.

I am not trying to start anything here, so please don't take this out of context. If I am understanding what you are saying right, you feel that the car is going to slow down faster downshifting then if you just used the brakes, or am I missing the point?

Brian

cobragb · 10-15-2002, 09:12 PM

I would have to agree with Bryan and Brian. I have seen guys go through several tranny's in a race season and I have seen guys go through several seasons with the same tranny all for the way they went up and down through the gears. Anything that is easier on the equipment - is good.

Glen

kevin · 10-15-2002, 09:57 PM

another thot on this. i've noticed some folks us less brake in hard braking when the are down shifting at the same time. i would rather use brake than tranny for this purpose.

however, as some can atest to, i had a tendency to downshift way to early and over rev the engine. i now pay more attention at the revs when downshifting which i think is the main reason i now skip gear.

for my experience, i'll skip gears and stand on the brake full hard. the pedal travel in my race car is about a qurter of an inch so i don't have to move very far.

kevin · 10-15-2002, 10:43 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by kevin
another thot on this. i've noticed some folks us less brake in hard braking when the are down shifting at the same time. i would rather use brake than tranny for this purpose.

however, as some can atest to, i had a tendency to downshift way to early and over rev the engine. i now pay more attention at the revs when downshifting which i think is the main reason i now skip gear.

for my experience, i'll skip gears and stand on the brake full hard. the pedal travel in my race car is about a qurter of an inch so i don't have to move very far.

a little more clarification. if you're braking only, you can brake very hard. if your feet are doing both the braking and the shifting, then you're probably not braking full hard

sfuller · 10-15-2002, 11:40 PM

I see that I'll have something else to work on at MAM. I personally have downshifted through every gear at every event I've been at. No one has told me otherwise, probably because I have bigger things to worry about

I find that for me, it helps me make sure I'm in the gear that I want to be in and it helps me make sure that I don't over rev the engine.

sn8kbit · 10-16-2002, 08:27 AM

my couple o' pennies.

i use all the gears. i'm more comfortable with that personally. brian rode with me at RA, and while easier to concentrate more on the turn (5 and 12), but i noticed as i got faster, the rear tended to hop. downshifting into 14, i actually made the backend walk out (as dean'll remember i'm sure...LOL).

another thought, i usually blip the throttle to try and 'guesstimate' where i'll end up RPMwise on the downshift. it's easier to me to hit the next gear down, than guess RPMs while skipping a gear. you're still going to get some engine braking at say 4500, just not as much as at 7000, and in the long run, i think that'll be easier on the tranny personally.....

of course, most of that was ingrained in me while driving OTR....

**Cobra-R** · 10-16-2002, 08:37 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by sfuller
I see that I'll have something else to work on at MAM. I personally have downshifted through every gear at every event I've been at. No one has told me otherwise, probably because I have bigger things to worry about I find that for me, it helps me make sure I'm in the gear that I want to be in and it helps me make sure that I don't over rev the engine.

I think I got weaned from down shifting every gear at Road America. I do not like the feeling of the back end of the car dancing around (turn 5 & 12), and again it's the mechanical issue to me. Sometimes I get obsessed at doing things that are easier on the car, mainly because I hate fixing a broken parts.

It certainly looks like the majority of the people in here downshift each gear.

tgentry · 10-16-2002, 08:52 AM

Looks like I started a good discussion!

My personal practice is to do only one downshift, skipping gears if necessary, just before turn in. Less to think about, less chances to screw up, and as Kevin pointed out it's tough to brake full hard while heel and toeing.

If the brakes are properly biased and you add engine braking, doesn't that give you too much rear braking? My feeling is that if the car is slowing faster with engine braking you need to work on the brakes.

**Cobra-R** · 10-16-2002, 09:13 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by tgentry
Looks like I started a good discussion!

My feeling is that if the car is slowing faster with engine braking you need to
work on the brakes.

That is exactly the point I was making above, I didn't understand how you could gain anything (braking) by downshifting each gear.

kevin · 10-16-2002, 09:15 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by sfuller
I see that I'll have something else to work on at MAM. I personally have downshifted through every gear at every event I've been at. No one has told me otherwise, probably because I have bigger things to worry about I find that for me, it helps me make sure I'm in the gear that I want to be in and it helps me make sure that I don't over rev the engine.

depending on the gearing of your car, you may not have to worry about this much at mam.

in my race car i could leave it in third just about all the time because the lowest the revs got were around 3k. i have plenty of tq there so it was never an issue of power out of the turn. when i first got on the track i shited down to 2nd, but it was a needless waste of fuel and wera/tear on car parts. the mustang will be a different story i'm sure.

kevin · 10-16-2002, 09:18 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by kevin
depending on the gearing of your car, you may not have to worry about this much at mam.

in my race car i could leave it in third just about all the time because the lowest the revs got were around 3k. i have plenty of tq there so it was never an issue of power out of the turn. when i first got on the track i shited down to 2nd, but it was a needless waste of fuel and wera/tear on car parts. the mustang will be a different story i'm sure.

this being said. at road america it's not unusal to go from 4th to a turn the requires 2nd. so at a track like that (and vir) i'll skip gears on the race car (the mustang doesn't seem to have as crisp a box to make this as easy)

spittincobra01 · 10-16-2002, 12:44 PM

Me personally, I down shift one gear at a time. I do not push it hard like some people do/can, at the end of the day I have to be able to drive mine home... for now

10-15-2002, 03:52 PM	#16
justagt Registered User Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Salisbury, NC Posts: 299	I agree with Bryan and Brian. I use all the gears downshifting. Helps slow the car down. Also, factory rev limiters do NOT work when downshifting. So if you jam it into a lower gear while still going to fast, you could do some damage. KABOOM. __________________ Will #32 joegibbsracingoil.com

10-15-2002, 04:46 PM	#17
98banana Registered User Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: North, SC Posts: 1,789	I have to think that excess use of the motor to slow the car down can't be good for it. I learned from my motocross days that it wasn't good to coast on the motor with a 2 stroke because the fuel is much leaner which makes for less lubrication. Of course, with 4 strokes there's no oil mix, but can that create an issue with a lean condition? Just wondering... __________________ Tom Lewis Nothing fun to drive...

10-15-2002, 09:12 PM	#19
cobragb Registered User Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Winston Salem, NC Posts: 143	I would have to agree with Bryan and Brian. I have seen guys go through several tranny's in a race season and I have seen guys go through several seasons with the same tranny all for the way they went up and down through the gears. Anything that is easier on the equipment - is good. Glen __________________ '03 Torch Red Cobra Convertible FFR AC Cobra #1529

10-15-2002, 09:57 PM	#20
kevin Registered User Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: somewhere in the back of the pack Posts: 12,610	another thot on this. i've noticed some folks us less brake in hard braking when the are down shifting at the same time. i would rather use brake than tranny for this purpose. however, as some can atest to, i had a tendency to downshift way to early and over rev the engine. i now pay more attention at the revs when downshifting which i think is the main reason i now skip gear. for my experience, i'll skip gears and stand on the brake full hard. the pedal travel in my race car is about a qurter of an inch so i don't have to move very far. __________________ if a man insisted always on being serious and never allowed himself a bit of fun and relaxation, he would go mad or become unstable without knowing it. herodotus (485-425 b.c.). http://genoamotorsports.com http://www.isaacdirect.com/html/Othe...sComments.html http://www.isaacdirect.com/images/Users/Darth.jpg

10-15-2002, 11:40 PM	#22
sfuller Registered User Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Des Moines, IA Posts: 59	I see that I'll have something else to work on at MAM. I personally have downshifted through every gear at every event I've been at. No one has told me otherwise, probably because I have bigger things to worry about I find that for me, it helps me make sure I'm in the gear that I want to be in and it helps me make sure that I don't over rev the engine. __________________ Steve Fuller 96 Mystic Cobra 00 SVT Contour

10-16-2002, 08:27 AM	#23
sn8kbit Registered User Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: music frickin city, USA Posts: 1,417	my couple o' pennies. i use all the gears. i'm more comfortable with that personally. brian rode with me at RA, and while easier to concentrate more on the turn (5 and 12), but i noticed as i got faster, the rear tended to hop. downshifting into 14, i actually made the backend walk out (as dean'll remember i'm sure...LOL). another thought, i usually blip the throttle to try and 'guesstimate' where i'll end up RPMwise on the downshift. it's easier to me to hit the next gear down, than guess RPMs while skipping a gear. you're still going to get some engine braking at say 4500, just not as much as at 7000, and in the long run, i think that'll be easier on the tranny personally..... of course, most of that was ingrained in me while driving OTR.... __________________ internet redneck.. 1999 Black Coupe Maximum Motorsports Kenny Brown IRS'd hybrid

10-16-2002, 08:52 AM	#25
tgentry Got Boost? Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Rockford, IL Posts: 608	Looks like I started a good discussion! My personal practice is to do only one downshift, skipping gears if necessary, just before turn in. Less to think about, less chances to screw up, and as Kevin pointed out it's tough to brake full hard while heel and toeing. If the brakes are properly biased and you add engine braking, doesn't that give you too much rear braking? My feeling is that if the car is slowing faster with engine braking you need to work on the brakes. __________________ Tom Gentry Life is too short for boring rides! '06 Schwinn StingRay Spoiler (3 speed conversion) '03 Giant Team ONCE (Campy goodness) '00 Bike E E2 Tandem (too many mods to list) '98 ProFlex Beast (no more elastomers) '06 Kustom Kruiser Roadster (8 speed conversion) '74 PPV (Resto-mod project) '98 E-150 Starcraft Heritage "Black Bart" '89 Mercedes-Benz 560SEL "Gunther"

10-16-2002, 12:44 PM	#29
spittincobra01 NH S.E.C. Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Hooksett, NH Posts: 527	Me personally, I down shift one gear at a time. I do not push it hard like some people do/can, at the end of the day I have to be able to drive mine home... for now __________________ 2001 Black coupe #935 of 3867

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