4, 5 or 6 point harness? - Page 2

justagt · 06-02-2003, 11:01 AM

Craig,
So it like Stu. Forget a 4 point. I use a 6 pt. now, but used a 5 point with stock seats in my '94 for a while. IMHO, you REALLY need a sub belt. If not , there is nothing to keep you from sliding under the harness if you hit something.

svt_coupe · 06-02-2003, 04:20 PM

Yeah - IMHO, go with a 5+ point (for stock seats, it's much easier to mount a 5 point). I will not use a 4 point harness. I would rather use a 3 point than a 4 point, and obviously use a 5 or 6 point if I had the choice.

I know the Schroth is a good design, but I never felt comfortable in one. I could never get the lap belts to sit as low as I'd like. As soon as you tighten the shoulder belts, the lap belt would begin to raise upward, moving off your pelvis. You want the lap belts to stay on your pelvis, which is a very strong part of your lower body. Like Dave said too, you MUST use the sub belt with a system designed for a sub (i.e. a 5 or 6 point harness). Otherwise, I'd rather run the stock 3 point.

6 vs. 5 point. I run a 6 point. However, in a sedan where you are sitting upright (near 90 degrees with a good seat), all that is needed is a 5 point. It's only function is to prevent the lap belt from lifting upwards, off your pelvis, and causing you to slide underneath. In a formula car where you are reclined a good bit, I believe that is where the 6 point is needed, as the 2 sub belts have more work to do. They actually prevent you from shifting forward (subbing) and take a considerable amount of g-load. I use a 6 point because it's a little more comfortable (to me) and I have a racing seat.

The reason for mounting a sub belt REARWARD of the driver (I have mine mounted to the stock REAR seat bolt location with G8 bolts) - in a crash, you move forward. If the sub is mounted going forward, the sub will flex (it's only webbing) and cause slack to develop, which supposedly can lead to you subbing anyway. Mounting it down and rearward, as your body shifts forward, the sub belt only gets tighter, holding the lap belt where it should be - on your pelvis.

Also, remember that safety equipment is only as good as it's weakest link i.e. install it properly and do your homework on it.

2KWhiteSnake · 06-02-2003, 10:03 PM

Thanks for the responses. If you wouldn't recommend Schroth, then give me a few to recommend. I've seen the 6 pt Simpson's, but not many other brands that I'd know. I do want a camlock.

BTW....Shugg, we're going to Victory Lane Karting Thursday night after work to play around a little bit. We should be there about 7:30 if you feel like stopping by for some "lap time". Ron Hale will be working there that night.

justagt · 06-03-2003, 10:44 AM

what, no love for me, craig? See if I ever show up and eat free steak again.

2KWhiteSnake · 06-03-2003, 12:31 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by justagt
what, no love for me, craig? See if I ever show up and eat free steak again.

My apologies man! I don't know why I kept thinking you were from up around Greensboro. Bring it man! We'd love to have you. The more people we can get...the better. Ron says it's pretty much dead up til 8PM every night, so we plan on trying to be there before 7:30.

Craig

svt_coupe · 06-03-2003, 12:50 PM

Hmmm.... I may have to show up at this and slap smiley down. He beat me last time, but I still contend that was because he sabotaged my cart.

I want revenge!!!!

7:30 huh? Let's do it Will.

OK - regarding the belts. PERSONALLY (i.e. read all of this as my opinion), I like the Sabelt's (also Sparco's - they're made by Sabelt) cam mechanism more than the Simpsons. But there are a lot of very happy Simpson customers out there. The webbing on the higher-end belts (the good Simpson's included) is stiffer, and seems to resist "twisting" within the sliders/adjustment mechanisms better. Yes, they are more expensive, but they are nice. Willens Williams Willans?? makes a good belt too.

Now, Jason got some belts for his car at a GREAT price and the quality is great. It's the Crow belts. They are not quite as pimpy as the Sabetls, but they are a great system. I think he got his from MM but I'm not sure. Come to think of it, Don got his too from them. They come with all of the necessary mounting hardware if you ask them for it. Definitely a great set of belts.

Basically, as with all safety equipment, get the best stuff you can afford. ANY harness is better than no harness. ANY harness is only as good as it's weakest point - i.e. mount it correctly. I think this goes without saying, but get the kind that wrap around your roll cage's harness bar. Mounting them way back to the rear seatbelt mounts (been there, done that) is not safe apparently...

2KWhiteSnake · 06-03-2003, 02:55 PM

Those Crow belts look fine. Thanks for pointing me to them. About $80 cheaper than some of the other more "popular" brands too. I'll have the car with me Thursday, so maybe you can explain a few things if you make it to VLK.

Yeah Will.....Get in gear.......hope to see you both there. Beware of my wife though. She is VERY competitive.

Craig

flynfink · 06-03-2003, 04:08 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by 2KWhiteSnake
Thanks for the responses. If you wouldn't recommend Schroth, then give me a few to recommend. I've seen the 6 pt Simpson's, but not many other brands that I'd know. I do want a camlock.

BTW....Shugg, we're going to Victory Lane Karting Thursday night after work to play around a little bit. We should be there about 7:30 if you feel like stopping by for some "lap time". Ron Hale will be working there that night.

You gotta let me know when you are coming up this way dude...I'm gonna see if I can make it.

BTW, Shugg is right 6 pt. is what I always used on my formula cars, on my sedans we always ran 5 pts. and the mount for the anti-sub was under my seat, under my butt.

Hey where were you guys on Drag Day??

justagt · 06-03-2003, 04:11 PM

It is WILLANS , goober, WILLANS. I use them because they have my name on them. That way I can't loose them.

Let's do that on Thursday. Are you doing the 2-hour armband deal? Let me know.
B - call me.

oh, yeah, what Bryan said about the belts. I like the Willans a lot becuase they are a stiffer belt than others I have used and don't seem to work loose in a session. I also have some Simpsons that I like too. Some like a cam-lock and I like the duckbill, BUT if you get them, make sure there is a velcro tab to help hold the latch down.

word out, over.

2KWhiteSnake · 06-03-2003, 04:26 PM

Jeff! You come too(and your son), and any other people in the area that you might now. I've never been to VLK, so it should be fun. We kept hearing about it, so I got a few friends and my wife interested in going so we decided to run up there after work Thursday.

On drag day.....well, you know the story, I wimped out on the weather, and got busy that week and didn't get my drag radials put on, so I got some things done in the yard here instead. Glad to see you guys had a good time.

*I'm selling the Nitto drag radials if anyone is interested (245/45/17). They've only got the mileage on them from driving to/from Jackson in March. No passes or burnouts done on them at all.

Craig

Andy M · 06-03-2003, 04:28 PM

I installed the SABELT 5 point harnesses in my R when I did the roll cage last summer, and I love 'em. They are the camlock model. Bought them from Racers Wholesale.

SIUNARA · 06-03-2003, 04:34 PM

Shugg is correct, both Jason and myself have the Crow harnesses from MM. A very nice harness for the money ($150 each)!

When are you gutting that car Craig?

2KWhiteSnake · 06-03-2003, 04:41 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by SIUNARA
Shugg is correct, both Jason and myself have the Crow harnesses from MM. A very nice harness for the money ($150 each)!

When are you gutting that car Craig?

Not gutting it, but Tom is putting in the cage Sunday.

justagt · 06-03-2003, 04:48 PM

Mark this day down. Craig said "Not gutting it".

yeah , ok, you keep thinking that and we won't say "I told you so" when you do!!!! Craig, Craig, silly Craig....... Don't you know by now how this works!

2KWhiteSnake · 06-03-2003, 05:44 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by justagt
Mark this day down. Craig said "Not gutting it".

yeah , ok, you keep thinking that and we won't say "I told you so" when you do!!!! Craig, Craig, silly Craig....... Don't you know by now how this works!

HAHAHAH!!!

I think I'm going to delete the back seat of course, but that's about it for now. I'll probably end up eating those words.

06-02-2003, 11:01 AM	#16
justagt Registered User Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Salisbury, NC Posts: 299	Craig, So it like Stu. Forget a 4 point. I use a 6 pt. now, but used a 5 point with stock seats in my '94 for a while. IMHO, you REALLY need a sub belt. If not , there is nothing to keep you from sliding under the harness if you hit something. __________________ Will #32 joegibbsracingoil.com

06-02-2003, 04:20 PM	#17
svt_coupe Bryan Shugg Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Charlotte, NC Posts: 817	Yeah - IMHO, go with a 5+ point (for stock seats, it's much easier to mount a 5 point). I will not use a 4 point harness. I would rather use a 3 point than a 4 point, and obviously use a 5 or 6 point if I had the choice. I know the Schroth is a good design, but I never felt comfortable in one. I could never get the lap belts to sit as low as I'd like. As soon as you tighten the shoulder belts, the lap belt would begin to raise upward, moving off your pelvis. You want the lap belts to stay on your pelvis, which is a very strong part of your lower body. Like Dave said too, you MUST use the sub belt with a system designed for a sub (i.e. a 5 or 6 point harness). Otherwise, I'd rather run the stock 3 point. 6 vs. 5 point. I run a 6 point. However, in a sedan where you are sitting upright (near 90 degrees with a good seat), all that is needed is a 5 point. It's only function is to prevent the lap belt from lifting upwards, off your pelvis, and causing you to slide underneath. In a formula car where you are reclined a good bit, I believe that is where the 6 point is needed, as the 2 sub belts have more work to do. They actually prevent you from shifting forward (subbing) and take a considerable amount of g-load. I use a 6 point because it's a little more comfortable (to me) and I have a racing seat. The reason for mounting a sub belt REARWARD of the driver (I have mine mounted to the stock REAR seat bolt location with G8 bolts) - in a crash, you move forward. If the sub is mounted going forward, the sub will flex (it's only webbing) and cause slack to develop, which supposedly can lead to you subbing anyway. Mounting it down and rearward, as your body shifts forward, the sub belt only gets tighter, holding the lap belt where it should be - on your pelvis. Also, remember that safety equipment is only as good as it's weakest link i.e. install it properly and do your homework on it. __________________ Bryan Shugg #67 American Iron East

06-02-2003, 10:03 PM	#18
2KWhiteSnake Registered User Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Lancaster, SC Posts: 588	Thanks for the responses. If you wouldn't recommend Schroth, then give me a few to recommend. I've seen the 6 pt Simpson's, but not many other brands that I'd know. I do want a camlock. BTW....Shugg, we're going to Victory Lane Karting Thursday night after work to play around a little bit. We should be there about 7:30 if you feel like stopping by for some "lap time". Ron Hale will be working there that night. __________________ 2001 White Cobra Coupe 406RWHP/365tq with less than 5 miles on motor/ALL N/A!!! 5.0 Big Bore block by Modular Performance Engine built by Lester Lesneski at Performance Auto. FR500 Intake and Cams Every part Maximum Motorsports has to offer Setup/custom IRS changes by Lester Lesneski at Performance Automotive Banana Motorsports 4 Pt Cage and Subs 2008 Audi RS4 Daily Driver 420 HP N/A V8 with Quattro http://www.cbslimited.com/rs4.php

06-03-2003, 10:44 AM	#19
justagt Registered User Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Salisbury, NC Posts: 299	what, no love for me, craig? See if I ever show up and eat free steak again. __________________ Will #32 joegibbsracingoil.com

06-03-2003, 12:50 PM	#21
svt_coupe Bryan Shugg Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Charlotte, NC Posts: 817	Hmmm.... I may have to show up at this and slap smiley down. He beat me last time, but I still contend that was because he sabotaged my cart. I want revenge!!!! 7:30 huh? Let's do it Will. OK - regarding the belts. PERSONALLY (i.e. read all of this as my opinion), I like the Sabelt's (also Sparco's - they're made by Sabelt) cam mechanism more than the Simpsons. But there are a lot of very happy Simpson customers out there. The webbing on the higher-end belts (the good Simpson's included) is stiffer, and seems to resist "twisting" within the sliders/adjustment mechanisms better. Yes, they are more expensive, but they are nice. Willens Williams Willans?? makes a good belt too. Now, Jason got some belts for his car at a GREAT price and the quality is great. It's the Crow belts. They are not quite as pimpy as the Sabetls, but they are a great system. I think he got his from MM but I'm not sure. Come to think of it, Don got his too from them. They come with all of the necessary mounting hardware if you ask them for it. Definitely a great set of belts. Basically, as with all safety equipment, get the best stuff you can afford. ANY harness is better than no harness. ANY harness is only as good as it's weakest point - i.e. mount it correctly. I think this goes without saying, but get the kind that wrap around your roll cage's harness bar. Mounting them way back to the rear seatbelt mounts (been there, done that) is not safe apparently... __________________ Bryan Shugg #67 American Iron East

06-03-2003, 02:55 PM	#22
2KWhiteSnake Registered User Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Lancaster, SC Posts: 588	Those Crow belts look fine. Thanks for pointing me to them. About $80 cheaper than some of the other more "popular" brands too. I'll have the car with me Thursday, so maybe you can explain a few things if you make it to VLK. Yeah Will.....Get in gear.......hope to see you both there. Beware of my wife though. She is VERY competitive. Craig __________________ 2001 White Cobra Coupe 406RWHP/365tq with less than 5 miles on motor/ALL N/A!!! 5.0 Big Bore block by Modular Performance Engine built by Lester Lesneski at Performance Auto. FR500 Intake and Cams Every part Maximum Motorsports has to offer Setup/custom IRS changes by Lester Lesneski at Performance Automotive Banana Motorsports 4 Pt Cage and Subs 2008 Audi RS4 Daily Driver 420 HP N/A V8 with Quattro http://www.cbslimited.com/rs4.php

06-03-2003, 04:11 PM	#24
justagt Registered User Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Salisbury, NC Posts: 299	It is WILLANS , goober, WILLANS. I use them because they have my name on them. That way I can't loose them. Let's do that on Thursday. Are you doing the 2-hour armband deal? Let me know. B - call me. oh, yeah, what Bryan said about the belts. I like the Willans a lot becuase they are a stiffer belt than others I have used and don't seem to work loose in a session. I also have some Simpsons that I like too. Some like a cam-lock and I like the duckbill, BUT if you get them, make sure there is a velcro tab to help hold the latch down. word out, over. __________________ Will #32 joegibbsracingoil.com

06-03-2003, 04:26 PM	#25
2KWhiteSnake Registered User Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Lancaster, SC Posts: 588	Jeff! You come too(and your son), and any other people in the area that you might now. I've never been to VLK, so it should be fun. We kept hearing about it, so I got a few friends and my wife interested in going so we decided to run up there after work Thursday. On drag day.....well, you know the story, I wimped out on the weather, and got busy that week and didn't get my drag radials put on, so I got some things done in the yard here instead. Glad to see you guys had a good time. *I'm selling the Nitto drag radials if anyone is interested (245/45/17). They've only got the mileage on them from driving to/from Jackson in March. No passes or burnouts done on them at all. Craig __________________ 2001 White Cobra Coupe 406RWHP/365tq with less than 5 miles on motor/ALL N/A!!! 5.0 Big Bore block by Modular Performance Engine built by Lester Lesneski at Performance Auto. FR500 Intake and Cams Every part Maximum Motorsports has to offer Setup/custom IRS changes by Lester Lesneski at Performance Automotive Banana Motorsports 4 Pt Cage and Subs 2008 Audi RS4 Daily Driver 420 HP N/A V8 with Quattro http://www.cbslimited.com/rs4.php

06-03-2003, 04:28 PM	#26
Andy M SCMC Member Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Northwest Houston Posts: 1,086	I installed the SABELT 5 point harnesses in my R when I did the roll cage last summer, and I love 'em. They are the camlock model. Bought them from Racers Wholesale. __________________ Andy SCMC #521 '03 Cobra Coupe - #3067 of 8394 Coupes (1 of 992 in silver metallic) '02 F250 SD Powerstroke 4X4 Crew Cab - my daily driver and Cobra hauler '13 BMW 28i X3 - Angela's daily driver '06 Jeep Liberty LE - daughter #1's car '11 Mazda 3 Touring - daughter #2's car '00 Cobra R - #155 of 300 - SOLD!

06-03-2003, 04:34 PM	#27
SIUNARA Registered User Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: State College, Pa. Posts: 374	Shugg is correct, both Jason and myself have the Crow harnesses from MM. A very nice harness for the money ($150 each)! When are you gutting that car Craig? __________________ Don Page 95 Cobra

06-03-2003, 04:48 PM	#29
justagt Registered User Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Salisbury, NC Posts: 299	Mark this day down. Craig said "Not gutting it". yeah , ok, you keep thinking that and we won't say "I told you so" when you do!!!! Craig, Craig, silly Craig....... Don't you know by now how this works! __________________ Will #32 joegibbsracingoil.com

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