Verts w/o roll bars - Page 3

spittincobra01 · 12-01-2003, 09:20 PM

last one for this car

98banana · 12-01-2003, 09:24 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by spittincobra01
infact, Tom was there on this day! Hi Tom!! I still owe you a couple dews

Hey Matt! Yeap, I remember that car well, first session, first lap turn 7, Road Atlanta. What a day for that poor soul. And that's exactly what I'm talking about . That guy drove his car to the track and is probably a fine driver. Then, he got on the track and possibly let his ego loose a little and totalled his car. He didn't roll over, but he could have.

And I'll have to pass on the dews... I've got a new healthy outlook on life and try to stay away from carbonated drinks. Yes, even beer!

I'll take a nice big Deerfield water though!

spittincobra01 · 12-01-2003, 09:44 PM

yup, you remembered it perfectly! It almost looked as tho he was going over till the wall got in his way. and you're on for those H20's! whenever we both attend the same event again... with your business, and my life that could be 2050

LOL... good to see you out here!

Peter Calvert · 12-02-2003, 09:29 AM

I think that Tom epitomizes the spirit of this club and one of the reasons that I'm so pleased to be a member. Thanks Tom.

2KWhiteSnake · 12-02-2003, 03:24 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Peter Calvert
I think that Tom epitomizes the spirit of this club and one of the reasons that I'm so pleased to be a member. Thanks Tom.

You've got that right!!! He custom built my cage for my 01' Coupe. Tom has been through an accident and walked away in his vert, so I'd take his opinion seriously. I'm completely thrilled with the cage, even if he might not call it "Streetable" (it's my daily driver)

I fear a rollover in my coupe, so I know the vert guys should fear it. The thing I noticed about lead-follow though was the fact that the speed limit is 95mph, which is way more than enough to get into trouble at CMP. Heck, I spun out in turn 1 (raining) at about 25 mph. Not that I had the potential to flip the car at that speed, but you can spin out at such low speed. It can happen just that quick. I'd hate to see a vert, let alone a coupe go flying off between 3 and 4 at CMP. Ronn Hale has actually seen someone flip there, and it's only a 60-70 mph turn. I guess it doesn't take much speed for those tires to bite once you're "off road".

The Cobra club rule on verts without a cage running lead-follow is a must at minimum. Even in lead follow situations like "touring" sessions I've seen people in lead follow doing 100+ between 7 and 8 at CMP. That's just a recipe for disaster IMO. If speeds are monitored very closely, and each car is to stay within a certain distance of the car ahead, it shouldn't be a problem. Although, I know all of you have seen people "drop back" a bit to get running starts during touring laps...at least I have.

Just a few thoughts

Safety first!!!

Craig

johnbasf · 12-02-2003, 06:49 PM

We will be doing it a little different next March in the lead follow group. This depends on how many show up. Those of you that are first timers can also sign up for lead follow to get your feet wet.

justagt · 12-04-2003, 10:23 AM

""I've got a new healthy outlook on life and try to stay away from carbonated drinks. Yes, even beer! ""

To whoever stole him...... can you please return the real Tom Lewis!!!!!!

98banana · 12-04-2003, 10:52 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by justagt
To whoever stole him...... can you please return the real Tom Lewis!!!!!!

Hey, I'm even training for the Florida Half Ironman competition next May. I can't drink beer AND run/cycle/swim!

Now I'm just wishing I hadn't buried the pool!

justagt · 12-04-2003, 11:12 AM

I agree totally with Tom in that a vert without a bar should not be on the track at all. But I also agree with Bryan in that these schools, be it SCMC, NASA, BMWCCA, etc. are a GREAT way to show new people about a cool sport/hobby. But in the interest of safety first, I still stand next to Tom on that. If someone has a vert and is interested, I would rather them come out and ride to see what it is like.

From an instructor stand point, I will not ride in a convert without a rollbar. I have two boys and want to see them grow up. Yes, I know that may sound morbid, but things do happen. I even try to avoid riding in verts with bar if I can help it.

I understand, and like, the limiting of the top speed and having a lead follow. But I feel safe in saying most of us are capable of driving in a straight line at 95, hardtop or vert. My issue is the corners...... there is no way to really limit how fast someone will take a corner and that is where people get in trouble. Myself included as Tony has photographic proof of this. But like Tom said, getting a wheel off or turning the car sideways and going off is when the bad things happen. There is just no way to limit that and most of us that do this will admit that we learned that by getting a wheel off or spinning out. It doesn't take a lot of speed to go off sideways, dig the tires in and flip.

my 2 cents.

SIUNARA · 12-04-2003, 01:06 PM

My $.02 worth...

I think the verts w/out roll bars should be in the speed limited lead/follow group. Think about this though...limiting the speed to 95 on a straight is a good idea...but what is the limit through the corners? If the lead person is hauling the mail everywhere but on the straights, that will allow the person following to run pretty fast through the corners, thus negating the point of the speed limited run group. If the following person is running at just about what everyone else is running at in the corners, we are taking away the safety factor IMHO. Limiting the speed on the straights is the lesser issue if we are truly concerned about safety. The corners should be the main concern...as Will illustrated last year...it's where most will go off!!

Sorry Will, you brought it up and I just had to go there.

johnbasf · 12-04-2003, 06:49 PM

Mr. Shugg had some good ideas for CMP. We will have more that one leader, like Panoz school at RA.

spittincobra01 · 12-04-2003, 11:24 PM

John I don't think the number of instructors for lead/follow sessions makes that much of a difference. Yes it would limit the distance one could gain before entering a corner, but it still won't necessarily slow anyone down. My first event was RA with Panoz instructors in a lead/follow and I was at 120mph in the straights, (which was as fast as their A4's would go) and running about 6/10's in the corners which was pretty hard considering it was a rainy day. Granted that was toward the end of the day, and I got a 1:1 with me and the instructors cars being the only 2 in our "group"... but I still wouldn't say that disaster couldn't have happened. I think the instructor felt comfortable in my abilities so he pushed a little harder as he even allowed me/us to pass slower run groups on the back straight. I am definately alot more safety oriented now, and I am very lucky that nothing happened that day as I still had to drive my car 1800 miles home.

I think the major difference would come from instructors who limit newcomers and anyone with a barless vert with great restraint. Reguardless of perceived abilities, and the desire to go baby go.

**cobrabitn** · 12-05-2003, 11:49 AM

I think what John is saying is we are going to have an instructor in a coupe to lead the session and he will lead the session with plenty of time to slow everyone down before each turn so their speeds will drop well below 95 mph.

Honestly, I can only think of two verts right now thay may attend the event and that's just guessing here. Great topic and replies but it may be moot point if no verts without rollbars show up.

**cobrabitn** · 12-05-2003, 11:51 AM

Oh yeah, here you go....

**cobrabitn** · 12-05-2003, 11:52 AM

depressing to see and scary too.

12-01-2003, 09:20 PM	#31
spittincobra01 NH S.E.C. Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Hooksett, NH Posts: 527	last one for this car Attached Images __________________ 2001 Black coupe #935 of 3867

12-01-2003, 09:44 PM	#33
spittincobra01 NH S.E.C. Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Hooksett, NH Posts: 527	yup, you remembered it perfectly! It almost looked as tho he was going over till the wall got in his way. and you're on for those H20's! whenever we both attend the same event again... with your business, and my life that could be 2050 LOL... good to see you out here! __________________ 2001 Black coupe #935 of 3867

12-02-2003, 09:29 AM	#34
Peter Calvert 'ZZOOM' Join Date: Dec 2002 Posts: 24	I think that Tom epitomizes the spirit of this club and one of the reasons that I'm so pleased to be a member. Thanks Tom. __________________ Peter Calvert 'ZZOOM' SCMC #373

12-02-2003, 06:49 PM	#36
johnbasf Registered User Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Lewisville,NC Posts: 2,674	We will be doing it a little different next March in the lead follow group. This depends on how many show up. Those of you that are first timers can also sign up for lead follow to get your feet wet. __________________ John Pearson

12-04-2003, 10:23 AM	#37
justagt Registered User Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Salisbury, NC Posts: 299	""I've got a new healthy outlook on life and try to stay away from carbonated drinks. Yes, even beer! "" To whoever stole him...... can you please return the real Tom Lewis!!!!!! __________________ Will #32 joegibbsracingoil.com

12-04-2003, 11:12 AM	#39
justagt Registered User Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Salisbury, NC Posts: 299	I agree totally with Tom in that a vert without a bar should not be on the track at all. But I also agree with Bryan in that these schools, be it SCMC, NASA, BMWCCA, etc. are a GREAT way to show new people about a cool sport/hobby. But in the interest of safety first, I still stand next to Tom on that. If someone has a vert and is interested, I would rather them come out and ride to see what it is like. From an instructor stand point, I will not ride in a convert without a rollbar. I have two boys and want to see them grow up. Yes, I know that may sound morbid, but things do happen. I even try to avoid riding in verts with bar if I can help it. I understand, and like, the limiting of the top speed and having a lead follow. But I feel safe in saying most of us are capable of driving in a straight line at 95, hardtop or vert. My issue is the corners...... there is no way to really limit how fast someone will take a corner and that is where people get in trouble. Myself included as Tony has photographic proof of this. But like Tom said, getting a wheel off or turning the car sideways and going off is when the bad things happen. There is just no way to limit that and most of us that do this will admit that we learned that by getting a wheel off or spinning out. It doesn't take a lot of speed to go off sideways, dig the tires in and flip. my 2 cents. __________________ Will #32 joegibbsracingoil.com

12-04-2003, 01:06 PM	#40
SIUNARA Registered User Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: State College, Pa. Posts: 374	My $.02 worth... I think the verts w/out roll bars should be in the speed limited lead/follow group. Think about this though...limiting the speed to 95 on a straight is a good idea...but what is the limit through the corners? If the lead person is hauling the mail everywhere but on the straights, that will allow the person following to run pretty fast through the corners, thus negating the point of the speed limited run group. If the following person is running at just about what everyone else is running at in the corners, we are taking away the safety factor IMHO. Limiting the speed on the straights is the lesser issue if we are truly concerned about safety. The corners should be the main concern...as Will illustrated last year...it's where most will go off!! Sorry Will, you brought it up and I just had to go there. __________________ Don Page 95 Cobra

12-04-2003, 06:49 PM	#41
johnbasf Registered User Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Lewisville,NC Posts: 2,674	Mr. Shugg had some good ideas for CMP. We will have more that one leader, like Panoz school at RA. __________________ John Pearson

12-04-2003, 11:24 PM	#42
spittincobra01 NH S.E.C. Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Hooksett, NH Posts: 527	John I don't think the number of instructors for lead/follow sessions makes that much of a difference. Yes it would limit the distance one could gain before entering a corner, but it still won't necessarily slow anyone down. My first event was RA with Panoz instructors in a lead/follow and I was at 120mph in the straights, (which was as fast as their A4's would go) and running about 6/10's in the corners which was pretty hard considering it was a rainy day. Granted that was toward the end of the day, and I got a 1:1 with me and the instructors cars being the only 2 in our "group"... but I still wouldn't say that disaster couldn't have happened. I think the instructor felt comfortable in my abilities so he pushed a little harder as he even allowed me/us to pass slower run groups on the back straight. I am definately alot more safety oriented now, and I am very lucky that nothing happened that day as I still had to drive my car 1800 miles home. I think the major difference would come from instructors who limit newcomers and anyone with a barless vert with great restraint. Reguardless of perceived abilities, and the desire to go baby go. __________________ 2001 Black coupe #935 of 3867

12-05-2003, 11:49 AM	#43
cobrabitn Dr Jekyll on the street, Mr Hyde on the track Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Rock Hill SC Posts: 14,649	I think what John is saying is we are going to have an instructor in a coupe to lead the session and he will lead the session with plenty of time to slow everyone down before each turn so their speeds will drop well below 95 mph. Honestly, I can only think of two verts right now thay may attend the event and that's just guessing here. Great topic and replies but it may be moot point if no verts without rollbars show up.

12-05-2003, 11:51 AM	#44
cobrabitn Dr Jekyll on the street, Mr Hyde on the track Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Rock Hill SC Posts: 14,649	Oh yeah, here you go.... Attached Images __________________ Cobrabitn 2016 Ruby Red Metallic with Caribou accent F-350 Crew Cab Stump Puller! 6.7 Diesel Automatic with Chrome Package, Off Road Package, 3.55 Locking axles, and Ultimate Lariat Interior Trim Package! 2017 Shelby GT350 Coupe - track car! Mods: JLT True Cold Air oil catch can 2009 Vista Blue Shelby GT 500 Coupe - Garage Queen Tinted Windows JLT True Cold Air Kit Pro-Dyno Tune 526 rwhp - 511 rwtq 1994 Rio Red Indy Pace Car #22 "Runabout" Snake in the grill MGW shift knob 1996 SVT Cobra Wheels 1969 New Lime Mustang Mach 1 Sportsroof - Second owner - bone stock with shaker. One SVT Cobra, one Shelby GT500, one 69 mach 1, and a Shelby GT350 is better than nothing! Custom Data Plates for your Mustang or Ford! Buy "Cool Merchandise" at Data Plates Plus www.dataplatesplus.com See my MSR Video here!

12-05-2003, 11:52 AM	#45
cobrabitn Dr Jekyll on the street, Mr Hyde on the track Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Rock Hill SC Posts: 14,649	depressing to see and scary too. Attached Images __________________ Cobrabitn 2016 Ruby Red Metallic with Caribou accent F-350 Crew Cab Stump Puller! 6.7 Diesel Automatic with Chrome Package, Off Road Package, 3.55 Locking axles, and Ultimate Lariat Interior Trim Package! 2017 Shelby GT350 Coupe - track car! Mods: JLT True Cold Air oil catch can 2009 Vista Blue Shelby GT 500 Coupe - Garage Queen Tinted Windows JLT True Cold Air Kit Pro-Dyno Tune 526 rwhp - 511 rwtq 1994 Rio Red Indy Pace Car #22 "Runabout" Snake in the grill MGW shift knob 1996 SVT Cobra Wheels 1969 New Lime Mustang Mach 1 Sportsroof - Second owner - bone stock with shaker. One SVT Cobra, one Shelby GT500, one 69 mach 1, and a Shelby GT350 is better than nothing! Custom Data Plates for your Mustang or Ford! Buy "Cool Merchandise" at Data Plates Plus www.dataplatesplus.com See my MSR Video here!

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