Borla Exhaust Question

vickerw · 08-01-2006, 10:10 AM

After hours of pondering & listening to sound clips, I have decided to go with the Borla Stinger Cat Back Exhaust. I was considering headers but have decided that they are probably not worth the time to install nor the headache they would cause me in the future. Now my question is, should I just add the Borla System to the stock H Pipe or should I buy a a high flow X pipe to go with it? I have heard the system with the stock H Pipe & it sounds good & is definitely loud enough. So if the X Pipe will make it any louder, then I will just stick with stock. Also would the X Pipe be worth adding horsepower wise?
Thanks for the input.

Linn@Amazon · 08-01-2006, 11:06 AM

changing to an aftermarket midpipe will make it louder..maybe too loud if you like the way it sounded on the stock pipe.. BTW that is one of my favorite combos..the stock pipe with the Stingers...very nice...I think Ive heard about every combo there is on these cars

blk04cobra1 · 08-01-2006, 04:39 PM

Adding a catted midpipe would be your best bet. It will make it louder, but the cats will dull the sound just enough. This will especially help in the long run on making a little bit more power. I agree with Linn that the Stingers and stock H do sound really good, but the stock H will limit you just a bit on power (maybe 10-12rwhp).

ggrab · 08-01-2006, 05:09 PM

I am not sure about the X-pipe with cats, but I can tell you that changing to an off road X-pipe on my '94 Cobra, with no other exhaust mods, made a considerable difference in the exhaust volume and tone. It really surprised me. Those cats must have been even more restrictive than I thought. I would think that high flow cats should increase the volume as well, although certainly to a lesser extent.

I plan on adding a Flowmaster cat-back (I guess I'm considered old school now. I started modifying my '85 GT when Flowmaster was one of the very few choices out there and I still prefer that sound) and unequal-length shorty headers soon, but I am actually enjoying the way it sounds for now. It's a different sound. Everybody's got their opinion on what sound's best. I can certainly say this though - every set-up I've ever heard on a V-8 mustang still sounds a million times better than any of those tuner cars!

Question: Why do you say that the headers will not be worth the time to install or the trouble they will cause? If you are talking about long tubes, I tend to agree. Shorties, however, are not that difficult to install, provide a decent benefit, and do not cause any problems that I have ever noticed. I personally think that they are worth the effort.

vickerw · 08-02-2006, 12:34 AM

Thanks for the responses. I am still pondering the Bassani X-pipe. To answer your question ggrab, I was talking about adding long tube headers. Most people that add headers on the 03-04 Cobra are adding the long tube headers. I think Bassani makes some mid-length, but I don't know if I have even seen shorties for these cars. The reason I am steering away from the long tubes is first because of the complicated installation, or I could pay somebody around $800 to install & that isn't going to happen. Second from what I have read unless you are planning on adding a Kenne Bell or Whipple & making 550-600 rwhp than the stock headers are sufficient & basically you will be wasting about $500 (BBK Headers) & about a day to install. Remember these cars came supercharged from the factory, & 390hp at the flywheel, so I am sure that the stock headers are sufficient for the Eaton and can handle the 450-460 you will get out of this blower with some basic mods. Where SVT starved these cars of air-flow was at the intake, so thats why by adding a simple CAI you will see gains of 20-25 rwhp. I have also read when installing the headers you might see a little increase in horsepower, but you will see a decrease in your RWTQ. So in a nutshell ggrab the bang for the $$$ & time spent doesn't add up. Oh yeah don't forget about the headache you will have when you go to replace your clutch. Anybody else have a take on this? Also anymore takes on the X-Pipe with Borla I am ordering the parts on Thursday, so any input would be appreciated. Thanks

ausie · 08-02-2006, 07:20 AM

The actual HP numbers the stock motor pushes out is more close to 420Hp to 425HP. The underrating of the motor by Ford served two purposes: 1. reduction in insurance cost, 2. Ford did not want another 99 issue. To comply with EPA noise pollution, the cat back and intake were restricted to reduce the noise level of the supercharger (that is something I can believe since after changing to an aftermarket exhaust the supercharger sings much louder and can be heard over the unrestricted noise from the tailpipes.

) I have yet to unleash the intake to its fullest potential other than a high flow filter and no air silencer. Going to LT headers may require a different K-member for added clearance. You may loose a little bit of torque since there will be more scavaging from the LT's. From what I remember reading, the difference between the cast iron headers when compared to gains from LT headers on the 03/04 motors is not much considering the cost to do it. However, there is something to gain from the mid-pipe and different cats (unless you go catless). If you change the cats there may be some tuning to do just in case the A/F ratios change since the O2 sensors will effect the fuel curve. I would at least have the fuel ratio checked if nothing else. Changing to an aftermarket cat-back will alter fuel ratio a bit as well but not to the point that the ECU cannot correct or manage. The same probably could apply to high flow catted mid pipe. A tune would be required if you change the cams, pully, or headers and probably a good idea to have the A/F checked after you change the intake plumbing if you are using one that has not been fully tested and evaluated. You would probably be fine with JLT but others types I would question it.... the reason for the suggestion is in case the airflow bypasses the meter tube or is getting tubulance due to its position relative to any bends in the intake tract before or after the MAF. If it is off and out of the main stream of air flow your motor could see a lean condition at WOT which would lead to detonation, this is probably more of a problem for naturally aspirated motors than for one with forced induction.

beerkat · 08-02-2006, 08:05 AM

I run the Borla with the stock H pipe. I am very happy with the combo. I have had several people tell me how nice it sounds. I run mine on track (DE's) and have plenty of torque.

ggrab · 08-02-2006, 08:14 AM

Vickerw,

I am stuck in the 5.0 world and often forget to think about all of the differences. I do have a couple of friends that have the 4.6 Cobras and they agree that the long tubes are not worth the cost and hassle for the performance gained. I don't think they are even worth the hassle on a 5.0 engine, unless you are looking to make some serious HP. I have always done all of my own work and I know that I would not want those long tubes in my way for clutch and starter changes. If you have somone work on the car for you, I am sure that you would end up paying for their trouble in dealing with the long tubes being in their way too.

I was sure that one of my friends had mentioned looking at buying shorty headers for his 4.6, but he may have actually meant the mid length headers. Who knows?

Even if you don't make a lot more power with just mufflers, at least the car will sound mean. For me anyway, the sound of a Mustang with a free-flowing exhaust is a large part of the fun in driving the car! Of course power never hurts either. I wish I was pushing near 400 HP at the wheels! Maybe some day . . . . .

blk04cobra1 · 08-02-2006, 10:35 AM

LT's do make a difference even if you're sticking with the Eaton. Now to justify the cost is a different story. We've seen a 29rwhp gain on one of our customer's cars, but that's not always the case...most are in the 22-25rwhp gain. If $1200 (installed headers/midpipe) is worth another 20-25rwhp when you're all said and done, great, if not then they arent for you. They will also make the car louder, so you'd have to consider that as well

.

FactoryFreak197 · 08-02-2006, 10:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vickerw

After hours of pondering & listening to sound clips, I have decided to go with the Borla Stinger Cat Back Exhaust. I was considering headers but have decided that they are probably not worth the time to install nor the headache they would cause me in the future. Now my question is, should I just add the Borla System to the stock H Pipe or should I buy a a high flow X pipe to go with it? I have heard the system with the stock H Pipe & it sounds good & is definitely loud enough. So if the X Pipe will make it any louder, then I will just stick with stock. Also would the X Pipe be worth adding horsepower wise?
Thanks for the input.

I added the off-road x-pipe on my 03 cobra, with magnaflow cat-back was pretty loud, but now Im much more happier with the kooks long tube headers that come with their offroad xpipe, sound is really good, not too loud has, it that nice deep tone without being too crazy loud.

ausie · 08-03-2006, 06:38 AM

I do like the sound the LT's make especially when coupled with a radical cam on the early model cars. But when it comes to supercharging the net gains achived with headers does not seem all that much as it would with a naturally aspirated motor. However for turbo applications the least amount of back pressure before the turbo the better. The design of the header should match the application.

The stock cat-back on the 03/04 Cobras is the most restrictive part followed by the mid-pipe section. Just changing the cat-back would be an improvement. That was the first thing I did after the first 500 miles on the car.

smashedheadcat · 08-03-2006, 12:55 PM

I had the stingers with the stock midpipe for awhile. I found it to be an awesome sound, but after a month or so, I was looking to make her a touch louder. I bit the bullet and bought a MAC prochamber midpipe and put that on. In my opinion, nothing touches the "tone" of this combo while kicking up the volume.

Cobrizo · 08-03-2006, 09:31 PM

I have the Stingers with the MRT midpipe. Very nice rumble!

jimbo68gt · 08-09-2006, 12:06 PM

Go with the X-pipe. Definately!!! On our hooters cup car the X had more hp over the H pipe. On my Cobra I just put the Bassani X with Bassani cat-backs on it and its awesome sound. The sound might change a little but not a bunch of sound much over your Borla.

08-01-2006, 10:10 AM	#1
vickerw Registered User Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 3	Borla Exhaust Question After hours of pondering & listening to sound clips, I have decided to go with the Borla Stinger Cat Back Exhaust. I was considering headers but have decided that they are probably not worth the time to install nor the headache they would cause me in the future. Now my question is, should I just add the Borla System to the stock H Pipe or should I buy a a high flow X pipe to go with it? I have heard the system with the stock H Pipe & it sounds good & is definitely loud enough. So if the X Pipe will make it any louder, then I will just stick with stock. Also would the X Pipe be worth adding horsepower wise? Thanks for the input.

08-01-2006, 04:39 PM	#3
blk04cobra1 Registered User Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Charlotte, NC Posts: 1,374	Adding a catted midpipe would be your best bet. It will make it louder, but the cats will dull the sound just enough. This will especially help in the long run on making a little bit more power. I agree with Linn that the Stingers and stock H do sound really good, but the stock H will limit you just a bit on power (maybe 10-12rwhp). __________________ 2004 Cobra HP Twin 67's 785rwhp on 9lbs of boost

08-01-2006, 05:09 PM	#4
ggrab Registered User Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Sylvania, GA Posts: 64	X-pipe I am not sure about the X-pipe with cats, but I can tell you that changing to an off road X-pipe on my '94 Cobra, with no other exhaust mods, made a considerable difference in the exhaust volume and tone. It really surprised me. Those cats must have been even more restrictive than I thought. I would think that high flow cats should increase the volume as well, although certainly to a lesser extent. I plan on adding a Flowmaster cat-back (I guess I'm considered old school now. I started modifying my '85 GT when Flowmaster was one of the very few choices out there and I still prefer that sound) and unequal-length shorty headers soon, but I am actually enjoying the way it sounds for now. It's a different sound. Everybody's got their opinion on what sound's best. I can certainly say this though - every set-up I've ever heard on a V-8 mustang still sounds a million times better than any of those tuner cars! Question: Why do you say that the headers will not be worth the time to install or the trouble they will cause? If you are talking about long tubes, I tend to agree. Shorties, however, are not that difficult to install, provide a decent benefit, and do not cause any problems that I have ever noticed. I personally think that they are worth the effort.

08-02-2006, 07:20 AM	#6
ausie Don't let the dog drive Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Kinston, NC Posts: 1,883	The actual HP numbers the stock motor pushes out is more close to 420Hp to 425HP. The underrating of the motor by Ford served two purposes: 1. reduction in insurance cost, 2. Ford did not want another 99 issue. To comply with EPA noise pollution, the cat back and intake were restricted to reduce the noise level of the supercharger (that is something I can believe since after changing to an aftermarket exhaust the supercharger sings much louder and can be heard over the unrestricted noise from the tailpipes. ) I have yet to unleash the intake to its fullest potential other than a high flow filter and no air silencer. Going to LT headers may require a different K-member for added clearance. You may loose a little bit of torque since there will be more scavaging from the LT's. From what I remember reading, the difference between the cast iron headers when compared to gains from LT headers on the 03/04 motors is not much considering the cost to do it. However, there is something to gain from the mid-pipe and different cats (unless you go catless). If you change the cats there may be some tuning to do just in case the A/F ratios change since the O2 sensors will effect the fuel curve. I would at least have the fuel ratio checked if nothing else. Changing to an aftermarket cat-back will alter fuel ratio a bit as well but not to the point that the ECU cannot correct or manage. The same probably could apply to high flow catted mid pipe. A tune would be required if you change the cams, pully, or headers and probably a good idea to have the A/F checked after you change the intake plumbing if you are using one that has not been fully tested and evaluated. You would probably be fine with JLT but others types I would question it.... the reason for the suggestion is in case the airflow bypasses the meter tube or is getting tubulance due to its position relative to any bends in the intake tract before or after the MAF. If it is off and out of the main stream of air flow your motor could see a lean condition at WOT which would lead to detonation, this is probably more of a problem for naturally aspirated motors than for one with forced induction. __________________ 2004 SVT Cobra, Silver, February 2004 SVT Build # 2485 out of 3768 SLP Loudmouth Cat-back UPR double lock firewall adjuster UPR GMS extreme double hook quadrant Wheels: Ford SVT 10th anniv. wheels (track duty) SVE 10th anniv. style 17x9F, 10x10.5R BBS RK Plasma 18x8.5F, 18x10R (retired) (retired) 2001 black SVT Cobra, October 2001 missed but not forgotten

08-02-2006, 10:35 AM	#9
blk04cobra1 Registered User Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Charlotte, NC Posts: 1,374	LT's do make a difference even if you're sticking with the Eaton. Now to justify the cost is a different story. We've seen a 29rwhp gain on one of our customer's cars, but that's not always the case...most are in the 22-25rwhp gain. If $1200 (installed headers/midpipe) is worth another 20-25rwhp when you're all said and done, great, if not then they arent for you. They will also make the car louder, so you'd have to consider that as well . __________________ 2004 Cobra HP Twin 67's 785rwhp on 9lbs of boost

08-01-2006, 11:06 AM	#2
Linn@Amazon Registered User Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 198	changing to an aftermarket midpipe will make it louder..maybe too loud if you like the way it sounded on the stock pipe.. BTW that is one of my favorite combos..the stock pipe with the Stingers...very nice...I think Ive heard about every combo there is on these cars

08-02-2006, 12:34 AM	#5
vickerw Registered User Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 3	Thanks for the responses. I am still pondering the Bassani X-pipe. To answer your question ggrab, I was talking about adding long tube headers. Most people that add headers on the 03-04 Cobra are adding the long tube headers. I think Bassani makes some mid-length, but I don't know if I have even seen shorties for these cars. The reason I am steering away from the long tubes is first because of the complicated installation, or I could pay somebody around $800 to install & that isn't going to happen. Second from what I have read unless you are planning on adding a Kenne Bell or Whipple & making 550-600 rwhp than the stock headers are sufficient & basically you will be wasting about $500 (BBK Headers) & about a day to install. Remember these cars came supercharged from the factory, & 390hp at the flywheel, so I am sure that the stock headers are sufficient for the Eaton and can handle the 450-460 you will get out of this blower with some basic mods. Where SVT starved these cars of air-flow was at the intake, so thats why by adding a simple CAI you will see gains of 20-25 rwhp. I have also read when installing the headers you might see a little increase in horsepower, but you will see a decrease in your RWTQ. So in a nutshell ggrab the bang for the $$$ & time spent doesn't add up. Oh yeah don't forget about the headache you will have when you go to replace your clutch. Anybody else have a take on this? Also anymore takes on the X-Pipe with Borla I am ordering the parts on Thursday, so any input would be appreciated. Thanks

08-02-2006, 08:05 AM	#7
beerkat Registered User Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Myrtle Beach, SC Posts: 471	I run the Borla with the stock H pipe. I am very happy with the combo. I have had several people tell me how nice it sounds. I run mine on track (DE's) and have plenty of torque.

08-02-2006, 08:14 AM	#8
ggrab Registered User Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Sylvania, GA Posts: 64	Vickerw, I am stuck in the 5.0 world and often forget to think about all of the differences. I do have a couple of friends that have the 4.6 Cobras and they agree that the long tubes are not worth the cost and hassle for the performance gained. I don't think they are even worth the hassle on a 5.0 engine, unless you are looking to make some serious HP. I have always done all of my own work and I know that I would not want those long tubes in my way for clutch and starter changes. If you have somone work on the car for you, I am sure that you would end up paying for their trouble in dealing with the long tubes being in their way too. I was sure that one of my friends had mentioned looking at buying shorty headers for his 4.6, but he may have actually meant the mid length headers. Who knows? Even if you don't make a lot more power with just mufflers, at least the car will sound mean. For me anyway, the sound of a Mustang with a free-flowing exhaust is a large part of the fun in driving the car! Of course power never hurts either. I wish I was pushing near 400 HP at the wheels! Maybe some day . . . . .

08-03-2006, 06:38 AM	#11
ausie Don't let the dog drive Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Kinston, NC Posts: 1,883	I do like the sound the LT's make especially when coupled with a radical cam on the early model cars. But when it comes to supercharging the net gains achived with headers does not seem all that much as it would with a naturally aspirated motor. However for turbo applications the least amount of back pressure before the turbo the better. The design of the header should match the application. The stock cat-back on the 03/04 Cobras is the most restrictive part followed by the mid-pipe section. Just changing the cat-back would be an improvement. That was the first thing I did after the first 500 miles on the car. __________________ 2004 SVT Cobra, Silver, February 2004 SVT Build # 2485 out of 3768 SLP Loudmouth Cat-back UPR double lock firewall adjuster UPR GMS extreme double hook quadrant Wheels: Ford SVT 10th anniv. wheels (track duty) SVE 10th anniv. style 17x9F, 10x10.5R BBS RK Plasma 18x8.5F, 18x10R (retired) (retired) 2001 black SVT Cobra, October 2001 missed but not forgotten

08-03-2006, 12:55 PM	#12
smashedheadcat Registered User Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Geneva, Switzerland Posts: 1,727	I had the stingers with the stock midpipe for awhile. I found it to be an awesome sound, but after a month or so, I was looking to make her a touch louder. I bit the bullet and bought a MAC prochamber midpipe and put that on. In my opinion, nothing touches the "tone" of this combo while kicking up the volume. __________________ Josh 2003 Oxford White Cobra Coupe Twin Turbo Solid Axle Automatic Return Fuel System 1997 Triple Black Cobra Convertible Forged and Blown. 511rwhp 398 rwtq Sold

08-03-2006, 09:31 PM	#13
Cobrizo Registered User Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Forest Lake, Minnesota Posts: 139	I have the Stingers with the MRT midpipe. Very nice rumble! __________________ '03 Black 10th Anniversary Edition Coupe, #467 of 2003. Born 6/11/03 2005 King Ranch, black of course.

08-09-2006, 12:06 PM	#14
jimbo68gt Registered User Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Connecticut Posts: 44	Go with the X-pipe. Definately!!! On our hooters cup car the X had more hp over the H pipe. On my Cobra I just put the Bassani X with Bassani cat-backs on it and its awesome sound. The sound might change a little but not a bunch of sound much over your Borla.

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