Braking and Downshifting

tgentry · 10-15-2002, 10:41 AM

When you're in 4th and you brake for a 2nd gear corner, do you shift into 3rd in between? I realize this is necessary in a crash-box trans, but with syncros it isn't.

I don't, but have had two instructors tell me I should. Personally I think they're all wet, but I'd like to hear some lucid opinions on this.

johnbasf · 10-15-2002, 10:57 AM

All of the classes I've gone to say eliminate shifts. I say go to second gear. Ok Mr. Shugg, am I right?

**Mystic_Cobra** · 10-15-2002, 10:58 AM

I don't know that I'd think too hard about doing it either way, I'd just do whatever felt right at the time.
Not helpful but....

tgentry · 10-15-2002, 11:04 AM

Wow, looks like the Mystic community is all in agreement!

kevin · 10-15-2002, 11:07 AM

tom, i may not be of much help either, but here goes.

i tend to skip shifts if full braking is enough to get me to the lowest gear befor the turn. this is what i tend to do when racing. it's less unsettling to the car as well and allows you to focus on the turn and braking rather than another shift.

during open tracking i tend to do the down shift cause i'm lazy

thomasmoran1 · 10-15-2002, 11:32 AM

At Road Atlanta were I was using 5th gear, on the back straight and then braking for the chicane I would hit 4th on my way to 3rd. There is no particular reason for this, its just what I felt comfortable doing. If anything you get to practice heel and toe twice as much LOL.

I to have asked instructors about this and they seem to say to do what ever you fell comfortable with.

Thomas

98banana · 10-15-2002, 11:55 AM

I used to hit every gear until the NASA classroom instructor said not to. I tried it a few times and had a hard time getting used to it. But, I got used to it and now feel it's much better to skip the gear because it gives you less to think about, like Kevin said.

thomasmoran1 · 10-15-2002, 11:59 AM

Tom the only thing that I can say is better about going through all the gears is that you stand less of a chance of back peddling the motor if you screw up. But besides that I think it is personal choice.

Thomas

98banana · 10-15-2002, 12:04 PM

Good point Thomas. I guess patience will need to be used as well.

thomasmoran1 · 10-15-2002, 12:09 PM

Thinking about it more, with hitting every gear you stand more of a chance of locking wheels if you really blow it and then the back of the car trys to beat the front of the car to the apex. Maybe someone should start a poll LOL.

Thomas

tgentry · 10-15-2002, 12:09 PM

Thanks guys. I just wanted some confirmation, and I trust you more than I do some "instructors".

b_tone · 10-15-2002, 12:32 PM

I am going to disagree here, I usually hit the gear and use the motor as a brake when coming down from high speeds. I know that most instructors say not to, engine builders say not to but I find that it helps me preserve my brakes for a little bit longer. It has to be done with a very keen watch on the rear end as you don't want to induce wheel hop. When I was in karts and formula cars this was no no, but with our cars being so heavy and having comparitavely small brake this is how i have learned to be fast.

Since the total braking force is transmitted only through the tires they are the weak link in how hard you can brake. I just have the opinion that I can let the motor help some and keep just a little of the abuse off of the pads/rotors.

Again this is only implemented during heavy braking like turns 5&12 at Road american and 10a at Road atlanta and everywhere at CMP. Just a little different perspective, but what do I know I'm a slow driver that can't seem to win an AIX race

Brian

98banana · 10-15-2002, 12:36 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by b_tone
... and everywhere at CMP. ...

b_tone · 10-15-2002, 12:49 PM

How do you think i was able to make it through the whole race at CMP after glazing my pads over (mental note: never again put pads in different boxes, you may confuse the compound and install the wrong one resulting in severe brake fade....)

brian

svt_coupe · 10-15-2002, 02:42 PM

I too run through every gear while downshifting. It helps to slow the car and ensures you don't over-rev the engine, like Thomas was saying. I've also experienced a slowed shift going into 2nd because 2nd didn't want to go. Going from 4 to 3 to 2 seems to keep the gears in line, giving it the synchros an easier job.

10-15-2002, 10:41 AM	#1
tgentry Got Boost? Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Rockford, IL Posts: 608	Braking and Downshifting When you're in 4th and you brake for a 2nd gear corner, do you shift into 3rd in between? I realize this is necessary in a crash-box trans, but with syncros it isn't. I don't, but have had two instructors tell me I should. Personally I think they're all wet, but I'd like to hear some lucid opinions on this. __________________ Tom Gentry Life is too short for boring rides! '06 Schwinn StingRay Spoiler (3 speed conversion) '03 Giant Team ONCE (Campy goodness) '00 Bike E E2 Tandem (too many mods to list) '98 ProFlex Beast (no more elastomers) '06 Kustom Kruiser Roadster (8 speed conversion) '74 PPV (Resto-mod project) '98 E-150 Starcraft Heritage "Black Bart" '89 Mercedes-Benz 560SEL "Gunther"

10-15-2002, 10:57 AM	#2
johnbasf Registered User Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Lewisville,NC Posts: 2,674	All of the classes I've gone to say eliminate shifts. I say go to second gear. Ok Mr. Shugg, am I right? __________________ John Pearson

10-15-2002, 10:58 AM	#3
Mystic_Cobra NASA American Iron #16 Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Northern VA Posts: 608	I don't know that I'd think too hard about doing it either way, I'd just do whatever felt right at the time. Not helpful but.... __________________ Jimmy Bost #00539 '17 Ruby Red GT350 #H6022 \| '65 Mustang hardtop

10-15-2002, 11:04 AM	#4
tgentry Got Boost? Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Rockford, IL Posts: 608	Wow, looks like the Mystic community is all in agreement! __________________ Tom Gentry Life is too short for boring rides! '06 Schwinn StingRay Spoiler (3 speed conversion) '03 Giant Team ONCE (Campy goodness) '00 Bike E E2 Tandem (too many mods to list) '98 ProFlex Beast (no more elastomers) '06 Kustom Kruiser Roadster (8 speed conversion) '74 PPV (Resto-mod project) '98 E-150 Starcraft Heritage "Black Bart" '89 Mercedes-Benz 560SEL "Gunther"

10-15-2002, 11:07 AM	#5
kevin Registered User Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: somewhere in the back of the pack Posts: 12,610	tom, i may not be of much help either, but here goes. i tend to skip shifts if full braking is enough to get me to the lowest gear befor the turn. this is what i tend to do when racing. it's less unsettling to the car as well and allows you to focus on the turn and braking rather than another shift. during open tracking i tend to do the down shift cause i'm lazy __________________ if a man insisted always on being serious and never allowed himself a bit of fun and relaxation, he would go mad or become unstable without knowing it. herodotus (485-425 b.c.). http://genoamotorsports.com http://www.isaacdirect.com/html/Othe...sComments.html http://www.isaacdirect.com/images/Users/Darth.jpg

10-15-2002, 11:32 AM	#6
thomasmoran1 Registered User Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: toronto Posts: 222	At Road Atlanta were I was using 5th gear, on the back straight and then braking for the chicane I would hit 4th on my way to 3rd. There is no particular reason for this, its just what I felt comfortable doing. If anything you get to practice heel and toe twice as much LOL. I to have asked instructors about this and they seem to say to do what ever you fell comfortable with. Thomas __________________ Any part that doesn't make you go fast, stop harder, turn better or make your car safer is totally USELESS!!!

10-15-2002, 11:55 AM	#7
98banana Registered User Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: North, SC Posts: 1,789	I used to hit every gear until the NASA classroom instructor said not to. I tried it a few times and had a hard time getting used to it. But, I got used to it and now feel it's much better to skip the gear because it gives you less to think about, like Kevin said. __________________ Tom Lewis Nothing fun to drive...

10-15-2002, 11:59 AM	#8
thomasmoran1 Registered User Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: toronto Posts: 222	Tom the only thing that I can say is better about going through all the gears is that you stand less of a chance of back peddling the motor if you screw up. But besides that I think it is personal choice. Thomas __________________ Any part that doesn't make you go fast, stop harder, turn better or make your car safer is totally USELESS!!!

10-15-2002, 12:04 PM	#9
98banana Registered User Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: North, SC Posts: 1,789	Good point Thomas. I guess patience will need to be used as well. __________________ Tom Lewis Nothing fun to drive...

10-15-2002, 12:09 PM	#10
thomasmoran1 Registered User Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: toronto Posts: 222	Thinking about it more, with hitting every gear you stand more of a chance of locking wheels if you really blow it and then the back of the car trys to beat the front of the car to the apex. Maybe someone should start a poll LOL. Thomas __________________ Any part that doesn't make you go fast, stop harder, turn better or make your car safer is totally USELESS!!!

10-15-2002, 12:32 PM	#12
b_tone Registered User Join Date: Apr 2002 Posts: 162	I am going to disagree here, I usually hit the gear and use the motor as a brake when coming down from high speeds. I know that most instructors say not to, engine builders say not to but I find that it helps me preserve my brakes for a little bit longer. It has to be done with a very keen watch on the rear end as you don't want to induce wheel hop. When I was in karts and formula cars this was no no, but with our cars being so heavy and having comparitavely small brake this is how i have learned to be fast. Since the total braking force is transmitted only through the tires they are the weak link in how hard you can brake. I just have the opinion that I can let the motor help some and keep just a little of the abuse off of the pads/rotors. Again this is only implemented during heavy braking like turns 5&12 at Road american and 10a at Road atlanta and everywhere at CMP. Just a little different perspective, but what do I know I'm a slow driver that can't seem to win an AIX race Brian

10-15-2002, 12:49 PM	#14
b_tone Registered User Join Date: Apr 2002 Posts: 162	How do you think i was able to make it through the whole race at CMP after glazing my pads over (mental note: never again put pads in different boxes, you may confuse the compound and install the wrong one resulting in severe brake fade....) brian

10-15-2002, 02:42 PM	#15
svt_coupe Bryan Shugg Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Charlotte, NC Posts: 817	I too run through every gear while downshifting. It helps to slow the car and ensures you don't over-rev the engine, like Thomas was saying. I've also experienced a slowed shift going into 2nd because 2nd didn't want to go. Going from 4 to 3 to 2 seems to keep the gears in line, giving it the synchros an easier job. __________________ Bryan Shugg #67 American Iron East

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